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Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

bigbrotherwatch.org.uk

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Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#121

Post by rhetocj23 »

physicsguy wrote: post #44
mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's just got their new British passport, faking the 3 pictures on it, and the whole passport itself, does not look trivial at all... I think it is much, much, much more common to have dodgy employers/landlords who do not carry out the checks at all because they are fine exploiting illegal immigrants, and no type of ID card would solve that...

Most people are paid cash in hand if they're working illegally realistically. I'm not sure that would change. But in enforcement it might since you could theoretically make it a legal requirement to produce the ID, that's the norm in many other countries.

Nah this is over come with data.

E.g. if a firm is doing better than its peer group with less employees on the books, something is suspect.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#122

Post by rhetocj23 »

gambiting wrote: post #33
mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who's just got their new British passport, faking the 3 pictures on it, and the whole passport itself, does not look trivial at all... I think it is much, much, much more common to have dodgy employers/landlords who do not carry out the checks at all because they are fine exploiting illegal immigrants, and no type of ID card would solve that...

>>As someone who's just got their new British passport, faking the 3 pictures on it, and the whole passport itself, does not look trivial at all... A lot of employers just want a photo/scan of a passport. I'm not saying making a whole fake passport is easy, it's obviously not - but modifying a picture of a passport is not exactly rocket science.

Yeah most employers just take photocopies of the ID for record keeping purposes and that's it.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#123

Post by pndy »

martinald wrote: post #15

The UK already has (various) digital IDs but this is the 'new' one https://www.gov.uk/using-your-gov-uk-one-login . So what's going to be different? Just making it mandatory? I can see some justification (sorta) for not making it mandatory, but saying it won't improve citizens lives is complete rubbish. Having one login for all government services would massively improve the efficiency, especially if other department…

> Having one login for all government services would massively improve the efficiency

I'm quite surprised that's not a thing over there

In Poland you can log in into governmental services platform by: scanning QR code with a digital id app (requires authorizing it beforehand but once it's done it works like a charm), a separated national id card app - only for newer documents with rfid chip, 3rd-party login via bank (as long you pick bank that offers it - some smaller ones don't), a qualified digital certificate within yet another app. There should be another option for EU citizens who in theory would use their national SSO platform as a provider but seems it doesn't work right now.

That digital id app will likely integrate everything else since it already provides a way to secure your national id number (a SSN equivalent) and driving license, health services (doubling the functionality) and train tickets components.

A separated health service app is also available where you can manage prescriptions for medicines, referrals for tests and vaccinations.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#124

Post by Saline9515 »

worldsayshi wrote: post #38
stringsandchars wrote: post #34

OTOH - partly playing devil's advocate here - I'm dealing with several bank and inheritance-related issues in the UK from my home in Sweden now, and needing to do pretty much ANYTHING with an authority in the UK feels like stepping back into the 17th century. There's a constant requirement for paperwork to prove who I am - always in the form of items that are 100% digital nowadays in the Nordic countries (like a "uti…

Swede here. I would not want to go back to days without BankID and related tools. That being said, the implementation has some less than desirable features. It's privately owned by some kind of joint venture by the banks. It only supports the major OS:s. So you're pretty much forced to own a Android or IPhone to function. Also, I haven't had the need to do this myself but taking care of somebody else's legal dealings…

BankID is the worst of both worlds, where a private company can deny you the access to public services.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#125

Post by swiftcoder »

stringsandchars wrote: post #34

OTOH - partly playing devil's advocate here - I'm dealing with several bank and inheritance-related issues in the UK from my home in Sweden now, and needing to do pretty much ANYTHING with an authority in the UK feels like stepping back into the 17th century. There's a constant requirement for paperwork to prove who I am - always in the form of items that are 100% digital nowadays in the Nordic countries (like a "uti…

On the other-other hand, here in Spain we have universal digital IDs, and we still need notarised paper copies of every document for every official process. Sometimes these processes are lining enough pockets they will never die...

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#126

Post by StackRanker3000 »

willvarfar wrote: post #28
jjani wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it require using a Google or Apple product?

Generally, yeah, to use the online government and financial services in Sweden need BankID, which is almost always on your mobile phone. You can also use a PC, although that is fading away. ID cards are also a thing, and in principle every grownup should always be carrying ID although its not like everybody really does when walking around the park etc. There are paper and in-person alternatives to the online services…

> ID cards are also a thing, and in principle every grownup should always be carrying ID although its not like everybody really does when walking around the park etc.

Tangential: I may be misinterpreting what you mean by ”should”, but no one is required by law or regulation to carry identification on them in any Nordic country (except for in certain circumstances, like while operating a vehicle that requires a license).

If the police have a valid reason to ascertain your identity as part of performing their duties, and you refuse to tell them your name, date of birth and address, or they have reason not to believe you, they can detain you until your identity has been confirmed. An id card can save you that hassle.

So if you’re just saying that it’s a good idea to always bring your id with you, then sure.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#127

Post by flumpcakes »

numpad0 wrote: post #72
flumpcakes wrote: post #35

Can anyone explain why this is a bad thing? All I hear about this is conspiracy theories or anti-government rhetoric but never a clear reason to why this is bad. I can't see a reason considering all of the benefits it can bring, and similar things have been rolled out across Nordic countries.

You don't want Palantir to be able to buy list of Uber riders traveled to/from locations near MI6. A universal government backed ID cards on signup, or worse yet used as substitute for credit cards, makes that kind of things easy. You can have such ID card system that can produce proof of authenticity of card itself, without any digitized card-face information included. I think that's how most existing systems are im…

> You don't want Palantir to be able to buy list of Uber riders traveled to/from locations near MI6. A universal government backed ID cards on signup, or worse yet used as substitute for credit cards, makes that kind of things easy.

If you can purchase Uber rider's data then you already have this - you need proof to work/ID to get a job in the UK. I don't see how 'digital id' would increase the risk here.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#128

Post by flumpcakes »

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #68
flumpcakes wrote: post #35

Can anyone explain why this is a bad thing? All I hear about this is conspiracy theories or anti-government rhetoric but never a clear reason to why this is bad. I can't see a reason considering all of the benefits it can bring, and similar things have been rolled out across Nordic countries.

Would you be willing to publish your browsing history with your real name attached? Why not list your real name in your HN bio?

That's not what is required for digital ID.

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#129

Post by goopypoop »

martinald wrote: post #79
sksksk wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One Login is an "authentication" system, an oAuth provider with identity added on. This means you can prove your identity once (to various levels of confidence, as defined in GPG45 [1]), and use that same verification across different government services. When people talk about a national ID system, they're often talking about some form of "authorization", i.e. proving that you are entitled to certain things. There c…

No I get that but you could eg link your passport to the One Login and it'd make the UX much better for many services. For example, if you linked passport, driving license and NI/tax account, then I think for 99% of services you wouldn't need to fill anything in. FWIW I was impressed with the DVLA driving license process, where you can type your passport number in and it pulls your photo from the passport. Very smoot…

steal wallet, receive identity

Re: Rights groups urge UK PM Starmer to abandon plans for mandatory digital ID

#130

Post by flumpcakes »

freethinky wrote: post #60
flumpcakes wrote: post #35

Can anyone explain why this is a bad thing? All I hear about this is conspiracy theories or anti-government rhetoric but never a clear reason to why this is bad. I can't see a reason considering all of the benefits it can bring, and similar things have been rolled out across Nordic countries.

There are several reasons. I believe, many would acknowledge that it absolutely has good sides. But there are worrysome sides. As I life at the moment in Switzerland I know a little bit about the discussion there: The implementation of an E-ID could just not good. In Switzerland people voted against E-ID already once and I believe now everyone agrees nowadays that it would have been an bad bad implementation back the…

You can implement any of this without digital ID. Are there any real privacy concerns in Estonia after their digital citizenship? These arguments could be made against passports/driving licenses. It just doesn't seem like real legitimate concerns. Governments already have multiple databases on who you are. If digital ID unlocks more possibilities I am all for it - there is unbelievable amounts of missed opportunities in Government. One example - using a pen tablet to sign your name with the job centre to 'prove' who you are: utterly ridiculous!
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