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Qwen3-VL

qwen.ai

121–130 of 166 posts

Re: Qwen3-VL

#121
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was looking it was more like 1.6k euros, but still great price. Mac studio with M4 Max 16/40/16 with 128GB is double that. That's all within a range of "affordable". Now, if it's at least twice the speed, I don't see a reason not to. Even though my religion is against buying a mac as well. edit, just took a look at amazon. GMKtec EVO-X2 AI, which is the AMD Ryzen AI Max+ 395 with 128GB of RAM is 3k euros. Mac…

Note that the small print on the GMKtec site says that prices do not include customs and VAT. Which seem to amount to 19% in the EU. So, almost 2,4K€.

There seems to be a EU shop as well, but I can't see it's without VAT, not even on checkout page. There's a 50 EUR discount code though.

Re: Qwen3-VL

#122

As I mentioned yesterday - I recently needed to process hundreds of low quality images of invoices (for a construction project). I had a script that had used pil/opencv, pytesseract, and open ai as a fallback. It still has a staggering number of failures. Today I tried a handful of the really poor quality invoices and Qwen spat out all the information I needed without an issue. What's crazier is it gave me the boundi…

I would strongly emphasize:

CV != AI Vision

gpt-4o would breeze through your poor images.

Re: Qwen3-VL

#123
post #61

Sadly it still fails the "extra limb" test. I have a few images of animals with an extra limb photoshopped onto them. A dog with an leg coming out of it's stomach, or a cat with two front right legs. Like every other model I have tested, it insists that the animals have their anatomically correct amount of limbs. Even pointing out there is a leg coming from the dogs stomach, it will push back and insist I am confused…

Definitely not a good model for accurately counting limbs on mutant species, then. Might be good at other things that have greater representation in the training set.

I'm not knowledgeable about ML but it seems disappointing how we went from "models are able to generalize" and "emergent capabilities" to "can't do anything not greatly represented in the training set".

Re: Qwen3-VL

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's AMD Ryzen AI Max+ 395, right? Lots of those boxes popping up recently, but isn't that dog slow? And I can't believe I'm saying this - but maybe RAM filled-up mac might be a better option?

Yes, but the mac costs 3-4x more. You can get one of these 395 systems with 96GB for ~1k.

I will admit that the price difference was a big value differentiator for me since speed is not a priority ( playing with big models at a reasonable price is ).

Re: Qwen3-VL

#125

As I mentioned yesterday - I recently needed to process hundreds of low quality images of invoices (for a construction project). I had a script that had used pil/opencv, pytesseract, and open ai as a fallback. It still has a staggering number of failures. Today I tried a handful of the really poor quality invoices and Qwen spat out all the information I needed without an issue. What's crazier is it gave me the boundi…

Wait a moment... It gave you BOUNDING BOXES? That is awesome! That is a missing link I need for models.

Re: Qwen3-VL

#126
post #79

So 235B parameter Qwen3-VL is FP16, so practically it requires at least 512 GB RAM to run? Possibly even more for a reasonable context window? Assuming I don’t want to run it on a CPU, what are my options to run it at home under $10k? Or if my only option is to run the model with CPU (vs GPU or other specialized HW), what would be the best way to use that 10k? vLLM + Multiple networked (10/25/100Gbit) systems?

An Apple Mac Studio with 512GB of unified memory is around the $10k. If your really need that much power on your home computer, and you have that much money to spend, this could be the easiest option.

You probably don't need fp16. Most models can be quantized down to q8 with minimal loss of quality. Models can usually be quantized to q4 or even below and run reasonably well, depending on what you expect out of them.

Even at q8, you'll need around 235GB of memory. An Nvidia RTX 5090 has 32GB of VRAM and has an official price of about $2000, but usually retails for more. If you can find them at that price, you'd need eight of them to run a 235GB model entirely in VRAM, and that doesn't include a motherboard and CPU that can handle eight GPUs. You could look for old mining rigs built from RTX 3090s or P40s. Otherwise, I don't see much prospect for fitting this much data into VRAM on consumer GPUs for under $10k.

Without NVLink, you're going to take a massive performance hit running a model distributed over several computers. It can be done, and there's research into optimizing distributed models, but the throughput is a significant bottleneck. For now, you really want to run on a single machine.

You can get pretty good performance out of a CPU. The key is memory bandwidth. Look at server or workstation class CPUs with a lot of DDR5 memory channels that support a high MT/s rate. For example, an AMD Ryzen Threadripper 7965WX has eight DDR5 memory channels at up to 5200 MT/s and retails for about $2500. Depending on your needs, this might give you acceptable performance.

Lastly, I'd question whether you really need to run this at home. Obviously, this depends on your situation and what you need it for. Any investment you put into hardware is going to depreciate significantly in just a few years. $10k of credits in the cloud will take you a long way.

Re: Qwen3-VL

#127

As I mentioned yesterday - I recently needed to process hundreds of low quality images of invoices (for a construction project). I had a script that had used pil/opencv, pytesseract, and open ai as a fallback. It still has a staggering number of failures. Today I tried a handful of the really poor quality invoices and Qwen spat out all the information I needed without an issue. What's crazier is it gave me the boundi…

I would strongly emphasize: CV != AI Vision gpt-4o would breeze through your poor images.

It did not, unfortunately. When CV failed gpt-4o failed as well. I even had a list of valid invoice numbers & dates to help the models. Still, most failed.

Construction invoices are not great.

Re: Qwen3-VL

#128
post #86

As I mentioned yesterday - I recently needed to process hundreds of low quality images of invoices (for a construction project). I had a script that had used pil/opencv, pytesseract, and open ai as a fallback. It still has a staggering number of failures. Today I tried a handful of the really poor quality invoices and Qwen spat out all the information I needed without an issue. What's crazier is it gave me the boundi…

I like to test these models on reading the contents of 80's Apple ][ games screenshots. These are very low resolution, very dense. All (free to use) models struggle on that task...

My dataset could be described in a similar way. Very low quality, very odd layouts, information density where it's completely unnecessary.

And these contractors were relatively good operators compared to most.

Re: Qwen3-VL

#129
post #32

As I mentioned yesterday - I recently needed to process hundreds of low quality images of invoices (for a construction project). I had a script that had used pil/opencv, pytesseract, and open ai as a fallback. It still has a staggering number of failures. Today I tried a handful of the really poor quality invoices and Qwen spat out all the information I needed without an issue. What's crazier is it gave me the boundi…

I’ve tried that too, trying to detect the scan layout to get better OCR, but it didn’t really beat a fine-tuned Qwen 2.5 VLM 7B. I’d say fine-tuning is the way to go

What's the cost of the fine-tuned model? If you were attempting to optimize for cost, would it be worth it to detect scan layouts to get better OCR?

Honestly, I'm such a noob in this space. I had 1 project I needed to do, didn't want to do it by hand which would have taken 2 days so I spent 5 trying to get a script to do it for me.

Re: Qwen3-VL

#130

As I mentioned yesterday - I recently needed to process hundreds of low quality images of invoices (for a construction project). I had a script that had used pil/opencv, pytesseract, and open ai as a fallback. It still has a staggering number of failures. Today I tried a handful of the really poor quality invoices and Qwen spat out all the information I needed without an issue. What's crazier is it gave me the boundi…

Any tipps on getting bounding boxes? The model doesn’t seem to even understand the original size of the image. And even if I provide the dimensions, the positioning is off. :'(
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