You can go to any number of sites (here's a nice one https://webencrypt.org/openpgpjs/), and encrypt a message. You can exchange public keys over any text channel. You can then send encrypted messages over that text channel. Anyone who really needs to send encrypted messages, trivially can. Of course, many criminals won't, but should we all sacrifice our privacy for such a pathetic measure of security?
Denmark wants to push through Chat Control
121–130 of 200 posts
Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would have to assume Palantir or Crowdstrike's new European divisions.
The EU and most conglomerates within the EU have been using Crowdstrike for almost a decade now. If they don't use CRWD they use Microsoft Defender, PANW Cortex, or SentinelOne.
I had no idea, I was just trying to be snarky and pick the worst possibilities on the planet.
Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm an American, and our politicians are starting to discuss forcibly institutionalizing all trans people. living my days out in a padded cell is not my idea of liberty, thank you. I'm getting out of here.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you and the rest of the community. And I don't get why they pick on the trans community so much. Apart from not aligning with their personal religious views, what else has a trans person ever done to a cis one? Most trans people I know are super respectful especially because they know what it's like to deal with bigotry every day. I mean when they go after drug gangs, at least there'…
I think the targeting of these minority communities is just to build up political capital to spend on distracting people from existential threat of climate change?
Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a devil's advocate, there are also criminal groups, right now, that do actual crime, that operate on discord. 99% of criminals likely don't have enough knowledge to maintain proper opsec, so spying on chats could in principle help here. On the other hand, there are also criminal groups, right now, that do actual crime, that operate on discord. Going after them would be trivial in comparison, and yet we introduce e…
I think a lot of those criminals use clear text channels because it works. If it no longer works, then they move. Meaning, chat control might pressure criminals. For a bit. Until they wisen up and use more secure protocols and end points. Which, not only exist, but are very easy to use and wide spread.
How hard would it be for law enforcement today, before chat control, to get chat logs out of discord?
Discord isn't exactly known for it's privacy features, still I imagine there's some challenge?
If the effort is low, and they're not doing it today, they're not going to do it after chat control either.
Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control
#125What I don't understand is, why don't the authorities think the actual bad guys will avoid the surveillance? It seems to me that organized crime will find their own solution, and the rest of us will occasionally have a snooping policeman checking our private messages. It's not unknown, even in Denmark, that people who are given access to private data will abuse it, eg snooping on ex girlfriends, that kind of thing. W…
It is additional tool. More tools -> better chance at catching the criminals. Downsides are purely theoretical and only brought up by conspiracy theorists and academics. (Technically correct, the best kind..)
Better yet we can just put every single person not working for the government in prison. 100% success rate..
Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think a lot of those criminals use clear text channels because it works. If it no longer works, then they move. Meaning, chat control might pressure criminals. For a bit. Until they wisen up and use more secure protocols and end points. Which, not only exist, but are very easy to use and wide spread.
How hard would it be for law enforcement today, before chat control, to get chat logs out of discord? Discord isn't exactly known for it's privacy features, still I imagine there's some challenge? If the effort is low, and they're not doing it today, they're not going to do it after chat control either.
> How hard would it be for law enforcement today, before chat control, to get chat logs out of discord?
Not sure, speculating: somewhat hard.
Discord must comply with government subpoenas, so if you're the FBI it's easy. If you're law enforcement, I imagine they tell you to go kick rocks if you don't have a warrant.
Law enforcement is pretty bad and mostly lazy. They can't be bothered to pull people over going 20 over, let alone get a warrant for every wannabe punk.
If you're not in the US, then I imagine the effort is insurmountable.
> If the effort is low, and they're not doing it today, they're not going to do it after chat control either.
No - but it can be automated, which is the issue.
Sort of like how the US was wire tapping virtually all internet traffic at one point with PRISM.
Then I imagine the "law enforcement" is done using machine learning and heauristics.
Do you use black slang? Put him on the list. Is your name not that white sounding? That's right, the list. Are you on hacker news? You guessed it - the list.
I mean, that's pretty much how automated facial detection works now. And yeah, it sucks.
Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
The EU and most conglomerates within the EU have been using Crowdstrike for almost a decade now. If they don't use CRWD they use Microsoft Defender, PANW Cortex, or SentinelOne.
I had no idea, I was just trying to be snarky and pick the worst possibilities on the planet.
[deleted]
Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control
#128Can somebody explain to me how backdooring every app does not lead to the real risk of an entire population's bank accounts being emptied, or similar more hidden but widespread attacks that absolutely cripple any country doing this? Almost immediately, enemy State actors will have almost as complete access as the government passing the law; blackmail will become trivial; they could just subtly weaken adversaries nons…
Maybe it's a good idea for the ones pushing this because that is the intended state.
Don't forget, Russia has trillions of dollars for bribes.
Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ask your local corporate IT guy how many people browse porn on work computers, even though they must know it's logged.
I've had an unexpected redirect from a hacked Wordpress site in the past. One of the reasons why I will never go without an abuse blocker + NoScript on work computers. I had been trialing going without at the start of that job and lasted a few months but that incident permanently removed any latent guilt.
Non-whitelisted extensions are blocked in Edge, and Edge is the default browser. Chrome/FF are less locked down, more due to incompetence than not trying to be heavy-handed.
…of course, Zscaler with “all Wordpress sites blocked” is also a thing, along with the majority/nearly all of European non-English countries, because god forbid you want to read the emmet docs or something.
Re: Denmark wants to push through Chat Control
#130>Now Paris “on the whole” agrees with the draft. France welcomes both mandatory chat control and client-side scanning. A few months ago, a broad security law was passed by the National Assembly in France. Initially, this law contained provisions, including the scanning of private messages, which were removed from the main text by a large majority of lawmakers, as it was deemed too intrusive. The few officials (includ…
> Crooks.
There's a bunch of people organizing against those crooks on the OG Stop Killing Games discord. Just type "stopkillinggames" into Discord's invite box.
One interesting note: The group has even identified a suspected Russian spy network tied to the Russian telco MTS. MTS paid a close to $1B fine for unsavoury business in Uzbekistan [1] and is known to operate GFW and similar tech [2] in Russia, Ukraine, Armenia, Turkmenistan and Belarus [3] for example. The company is trying to get at people's biometrics, by posing as a KYC / Online Safety Act compliance company. [4] They probably do provide the services, but one can imagine where the data is also going.
As a parallel thread mentions, anything related to Chat Control and other Internet control things immediately becomes a target for state actors trying to undermine democracy. [5] In my opinion, it is also often initiated and pushed for by them.
[1] https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-s-mts-to-pay-850-million-to-s...
[2] https://www.techradar.com/news/data-leak-reveals-how-russia-...
[3] https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/mobile-telesystems-o...
[4] (link works after joining said discord) https://discord.com/channels/1281358651470381097/14006009921...