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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

middleeasteye.net

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#121

Post by gspencley »

DaveExeter wrote: post #103
eej71 wrote: post #84

It's always useful to balance these claims against their critics. Towards that end I offer up unwatch. https://unwatch.org/

Isn't that an Israeli "hasbara" site? The Israelis have admitted that they use the false cry of "antisemitism" to attack. "Calling it antisemitism - it’s a trick we always use." Shulamit Aloni, former Israeli Minister https://x.com/SuppressedNws/status/1896748975207952758

How is that a refutation?

If I want to understand any position I would look for first sources. Say I want to understand why Russian invaded Ukraine, I would seek out Russian sources. When I try to understand the Palestinian position, I seek out Palestinian sources.

The beautiful thing about intellectual honesty and openness is that you don't have to agree with any position. You can expose yourself to things that deeply conflict with your personal values and walk away with a deeper understanding of why you value what you value, and how to refute ideas that you strongly disagree with.

To dismiss a source because it is Israeli ironically gives fuel to the antisemitism charge. You're saying that the very reason to dismiss it, to not even bother entertaining its arguments is because it is Israeli and no other reason. Beyond that, you are even arguing that any claims of prejudice can be dismissed outright on the basis of one thing that one Israeli Minster once said [allegedly].

That is the very definition of prejudice.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#122

Post by o11c »

leonixyz wrote: post #85

Hopefully we are at the beginning of a change, but I doubt this will come only from the UN. The UN is the only international democratic institution that - even with its many imperfections - prevents the world to fall into complete anarchy. It's quite telling that it gets ignored since so many years by the country that elevates itself as the world defender of democracy, the US. The UN has voted for decades for ending…

One hopeful observation is that I actually have seen coverage of the genocide in a local newspaper this time. N=1 of course (and I'm not sure what other local newspapers have been like), but that's more than before.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#124

Post by eej71 »

gspencley wrote: post #121
DaveExeter wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that an Israeli "hasbara" site? The Israelis have admitted that they use the false cry of "antisemitism" to attack. "Calling it antisemitism - it’s a trick we always use." Shulamit Aloni, former Israeli Minister https://x.com/SuppressedNws/status/1896748975207952758

How is that a refutation? If I want to understand any position I would look for first sources. Say I want to understand why Russian invaded Ukraine, I would seek out Russian sources. When I try to understand the Palestinian position, I seek out Palestinian sources. The beautiful thing about intellectual honesty and openness is that you don't have to agree with any position. You can expose yourself to things that deep…

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#127

Post by flyinglizard »

beloch wrote: post #87
therobots927 wrote: post #60

I for one will be holding my representatives responsible who continue to vote for the US to enable a genocide. The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.

Flipping the U.S. really is the key to ending this conflict. The U.S. reliably uses its security council veto to nix any meaningful UN response and the U.S. remains, by far, the biggest supplier of arms to the IDF. If the US were to stop veto'ing everything and cut off the IDF's supply of, at least, some types of weapons, the new ground assault would likely end quickly. Unfortunately, that isn't likely to happen. Net…

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#128

Post by jcranmer »

beloch wrote: post #87
therobots927 wrote: post #60

I for one will be holding my representatives responsible who continue to vote for the US to enable a genocide. The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.

Flipping the U.S. really is the key to ending this conflict. The U.S. reliably uses its security council veto to nix any meaningful UN response and the U.S. remains, by far, the biggest supplier of arms to the IDF. If the US were to stop veto'ing everything and cut off the IDF's supply of, at least, some types of weapons, the new ground assault would likely end quickly. Unfortunately, that isn't likely to happen. Net…

There's definitely a generational gap going in the US. Support for Israel is not popular among the younger generation in the US, and there's a good deal of voters in their 20s and 30s for whom support for Israel a red line in candidates. But older generations tend to be staunchly in favor of Israel, and too much of the gerontocratic political class thinks that pro-Israel uber alles is the key to winning votes.

It is worth noting that Andrew Cuomo, in a desperate last-minute gamble to boost support in the NYC mayoral race, has come out against Israel. Considering that much of the attacks on Mamdani have focused on his support for Palestine (construing him as antisemitic), it's notable that other candidates also seem to think that being anti-Israel is actually the vote winner for moderates right now.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#129

Post by dotancohen »

epolanski wrote: post #112
dotancohen wrote: post #111

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While you do have points that these UN bodies do seem to sleep more often than not, one should never, under any circumstance attempt to suggest that what's happening in Gaza aren't crimes against humanity. A friend of mine is in the Red Cross staff, they had more than 20 casualties since 2021 in Palestine. Their staff was literally shot at because they were doctors. It's sickening.

Which side do you think has an interest in shooting doctors?

I'll help you with that. It's not the side that would regularly take Gazan children into Israel for medical treatment before the Gazans started a war against Israeli children. Or do Israeli children mean nothing? Because I personally know two women whose children were burned to death on October 7th.

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