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Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

sdstate.edu

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Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#121

Post by brudgers »

instagraham wrote: post #116

Why is it that we read about so many inventions like this - once - and then never hear of them again? Most countries have to import plastic along with their oil. Surely the economics of this gets worse every time oil or shipping prices rise. And more so if you account the cost of waste disposal. There are economic incentives to scaling up these biodegradable alternatives. Are they not big enough to result in a push?

Google says global oil production is 90 to 95 million barrels per day.

That is a lot of grapevines, grapevines grow slowly, and growing grapes is the best way to use grapevines.

We read about technologies like this because science grad students have to do something, grad schools have low standards for useful work, and universities employ a lot of press release writers.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#122

Post by privatelypublic »

positron26 wrote: post #107
cm2012 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People dramatically over weight how bad plastic is for the environment. The impact of a 10 min car ride = 10,000+ plastic bags of emissions. And in first world countries almost no household plastic ends up in the environment.

Can't imagine this survives napkin scrutiny. A ten mile drive isn't using nearly as much hydrocarbon mass as 10k plastic bags. While most of the plastic hopefully winds up in a landfill, most of the gasoline is water and carbon dioxide by the end. It's tires versus bags. While tires shed, the mass lost in 10min is definitely quite a bit lower than 10k bags or the fraction that escapes the waste pipeline.

30mpg, 10 miles, means two pounds of gasoline, 910grams, knock off or add 100g for ethanol per your preference, a google says about 5grams per bag, so nearly 200 bags.

Nowhere close to 10k, but nontrivial. And, this gets reduced and sometimes outright negated if you reuse the bag. Doesn't mean we shouldn't evaluate if plastic shopping bags are the beat choice though.

I don't think replacing them with store bought doggy poo and cat litter bags is better. It's not a reduction and theres no reuse. If you find yourself discarding them outright, then find an alternative I guess.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#123

Post by cyberax »

nielsbot wrote: post #48
mrmincent wrote: post #26

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

I quit using bags for produce--I just put the produce in my basket or cart and then straight into the checkout bag on my way out of the store. The exception is small loose produce like snap peas.

Ugh. That's a REALLY bad idea for anything that you don't thoroughly cook.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#124

Post by csomar »

cm2012 wrote: post #104
mrmincent wrote: post #26

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

People dramatically over weight how bad plastic is for the environment. The impact of a 10 min car ride = 10,000+ plastic bags of emissions. And in first world countries almost no household plastic ends up in the environment.

That's emissions. The problem with plastics is not emissions but their biodegradability (or lack thereof).

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#125

Post by awalsh128 »

latexr wrote: post #77
mrmincent wrote: post #26

I would kill for this for when I’m buying fresh produce at the shops. Right now I just raw dog the produce into my basket as putting 4 apples into a plastic bag to ease the weighing and transport home seems like a selfish thing to do to the environment, but something that starts to break down soon after that sounds great.

Why don’t you bring plastic bags from home? They are very much reusable, you don’t have to throw them out. They are also quite easy to fold into small shapes and keep on you, or your car, or whatever. I have plastic bags which have endured for literal years. I also decided early on that if I forget to bring a bag, I either do without or have to go back to get one. You start remembering really fast after a few times o…

Because I forget them at home most of the time on the way to something else.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#126

Post by tw04 »

lordhexd wrote: post #120
tw04 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>People dramatically over weight how bad plastic is for the environment. I can only give a: what in the fuck are you talking about?? Modern medicine is literally finding microplastics in men's testes. "People" are dramatically underestimating how completely and utterly screwed the next dozen generations of humanity are with the plastic waste we've blanketed the earth in. Assuming humans survive that long.

Sure plastic aren't great for the environment when we're just dumping it out there without much care. Obviously reducing waste and reusing is what we should strive for on all fronts. Demonizing one thing results in overcompensation on the flip side and we know for a fact that that's not where we want to end up either. Remember when we tried to reduce paper use as much as possible because of deforestation? Or saturate…

> Remember when we tried to reduce paper use as much as possible because of deforestation?

No, I don’t. I do remember a push to recycle paper which was a net win for everyone.

> Or saturated fats?

Great counterpoint. Remind me of the benefits of having microplastics in your testes. Which part of that had scientists questioning historical data?

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#127

Post by dz0707 »

privatelypublic wrote: post #122
positron26 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't imagine this survives napkin scrutiny. A ten mile drive isn't using nearly as much hydrocarbon mass as 10k plastic bags. While most of the plastic hopefully winds up in a landfill, most of the gasoline is water and carbon dioxide by the end. It's tires versus bags. While tires shed, the mass lost in 10min is definitely quite a bit lower than 10k bags or the fraction that escapes the waste pipeline.

30mpg, 10 miles, means two pounds of gasoline, 910grams, knock off or add 100g for ethanol per your preference, a google says about 5grams per bag, so nearly 200 bags. Nowhere close to 10k, but nontrivial. And, this gets reduced and sometimes outright negated if you reuse the bag. Doesn't mean we shouldn't evaluate if plastic shopping bags are the beat choice though. I don't think replacing them with store bought dog…

I think your math is wrong. Most of modern cars do up to 150g of CO2 per 100km, there are other emissions too, but they are in way smaller numbers.

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#128

Post by MrChoke »

koolala wrote: post #66
squigz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not use a fabric bag? Either way good on you

Would be nice to have bags like that with their weight printed on them that machines trust.

Are bags so heavy that you need to tare them out?

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#129

Post by zygentoma »

cyberax wrote: post #123
nielsbot wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quit using bags for produce--I just put the produce in my basket or cart and then straight into the checkout bag on my way out of the store. The exception is small loose produce like snap peas.

Ugh. That's a REALLY bad idea for anything that you don't thoroughly cook.

That's such an American fear.

Wash it (as you should anyways) and you'll be fine ...

Re: Grapevine canes can be converted into plastic-like material that will decompose

#130

Post by fractallyte »

odie5533 wrote: post #81

It's a miraculous thing corporations have done convincing us that we're the ones polluting the environment.

I've been down this road before, and been brutally downvoted, but I'll say it again:

- corporations are responsible for creating products which can be recycled;

- the consumer is responsible for proper disposal of their waste, and also for electing officials who have actual policies on reducing or eliminating pollution;

- local government is responsible for setting up recycling centers, and for enforcing correct behavior in consumers.

The consumer is at the bottom of all this, directly responsible for polluting the environment.

Oft-stated opinions like yours are lazy and ignorant.

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