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Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

math.columbia.edu

121–130 of 145 posts

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#121
post #78

I've never heard of Eric Weinstein, but he sounds like a crank. I don't think he should be grouped together with Sabine, whose primary message is that she believes science funding priorities are out of whack, and are currently funding things she believes won't be fruitful or are over explored at the expense of things she believes are more promising. There is a huge gap between - we should change funding priorities vs…

Sabine has been recently supporting Eric Weinstein. She started off criticizing research, but has been following the path to grift. Now she appears on podcasts with fellow Weinstein and other cranks.

I'll admit i've watched some of her videos from time to time, but don't follow her super closely. If she's giving air-time to full on cranks, that is disappointing.

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hey, fascist! Catch!", "Bella ciao" and three arrows are all antifascist. I would assume that the shooter is motivated by antifascist political ideology at odds with Kirk's political ideology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Arrows The groypers are not antifascist, so the reported symbolism doesn't add up. If there's evidence of the shooter being a groyper, then I'm curious to see it.

If you have Spotify you can look for the years-old (so not invented today) playlist called Groyper Wars. Actually you don't even need an account. TIL. https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0ais7KJXx8Gyd0hsrbakKW ETA: And you have the wrong "three arrows" iconography.

Ok, the song exists on a playlist with a few hundred saves. I don’t think it’s a widespread groyper meme though. I’ve never seen them reference it on Twitter.

Maybe the arrows are a video game reference? I still don’t see a groyper tie there.

Meanwhile mainstream sources are reporting that the shooter appeared to be motivated by left political ideology.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/sep/12/charlie...

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have Spotify you can look for the years-old (so not invented today) playlist called Groyper Wars. Actually you don't even need an account. TIL. https://open.spotify.com/playlist/0ais7KJXx8Gyd0hsrbakKW ETA: And you have the wrong "three arrows" iconography.

Ok, the song exists on a playlist with a few hundred saves. I don’t think it’s a widespread groyper meme though. I’ve never seen them reference it on Twitter. Maybe the arrows are a video game reference? I still don’t see a groyper tie there. Meanwhile mainstream sources are reporting that the shooter appeared to be motivated by left political ideology. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2025/sep/12/charlie...

You seems to be trying to cram this into an inapplicable left-right frame. This is intermemetic warfare. That's why major newspapers need extremely online editors to fact-check their reporting.

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#124
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framing it as a spectrum between Left and Right is absolutely daft. In any European country the New York Times opinion pages would be seen as pretty centrist, or even centre-right. That so much of US media and political sphere skews heavily to the right distorts the overall picture.

All Sides has a documented methodology for how they establish their spectrum ( https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-rating-method... ). So even if you hold this view, I think calling it “daft” is dismissing the rigor of their approach.

You say that the WSJ is "more balanced and less biased than NYT", based on that website.

But a bias towards centrist American politics doesn't mean a lack of bias — far from it.

For example, 30 years ago a "centrist" report on global warming might have given equal space to right-wing and liberal perspectives, even though the vast majority of scientists at the time sided with liberals on the facts.

20-ish years ago a centrist report on Iraq would have parroted the administration's lies about WMDs and the urgency of going to war. And the New York Times was one of those organisations!

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#125

[flagged]

The link doesn’t work for me, but based off your comment: I can accept that mainstream journalism is generally in decline in various ways. But it is curious they chose to single out WSJ, which is considered more balanced and less biased than NYT or whoever else ( https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-chart ). Or is it just to point out that even WSJ is subject to this issue?

Here's the archived post:

https://archive.is/dXu2P

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an example, courts ordered the Associated Press allowed back into the White House press pool after the Trump administration attempted to remove them. You or I would not be allowed to just show up at the president's events to watch/listen in person. That is a special right.

> As an example, courts ordered the Associated Press allowed back into the White House press pool after the Trump administration attempted to remove them. You or I would not be allowed to just show up at the president's events to watch/listen in person. That is a special right. This was overturned. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/22/business/media/appeals-co...

You got me on language at least, but it's not that simple. It was overturned for specific "private" spaces-- e.g. the Oval Office-- but the most recent Court of Appeals panel from June 6th did find that the East Room is not private like that and kept in place the prior ruling that the AP's allowed in the East Room. (The NYT article you linked doesn't mention this, but it's really only talking about a July 22nd denial of the AP's emergency petition challenging the partial overturning, not any change to the situation on the ground.)

Regarding the East Room, according to the White House Correspondents' Association website (https://whca.press/covering-the-white-house/), reporters either need to have a hard pass or a temporary pass from the White House Press Office to enter. The Press Office generally only gives press passes to the press. That's why even if we restrict the conversation to the East Room, it's still a "special right" (or special privilege).

Regarding the Oval Office et al. (which admittedly is what the term "press pool" actually refers to), the Trump administration's entire argument was that press access to those spaces is a "privilege, not a right." So keeping in mind the courts affirmed an actual right to the East Room, the White House itself still grants other journalists a special privilege (because they're journalists).

You can make an argument if you'd like that the guy earlier in the thread should've said, "The press has special privileges because accountability and informing the public was supposed to be their job." (This ignores that it's still a "right" in other cases, like the East Room.) Squabbling over that word choice doesn't do a lot for the topic of this thread, which was journalists no longer serving the interest that justified giving them those privileges/rights.

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#127
post #44

A couple thoughts: - The author of this clearly disliked the WSJ article, but I don't think they did a good job of explaining why. I'm not saying they're wrong, but this article is very emotional without much concrete criticism. I assume 'woit' is someone famous I should know about but don't and he or she is assuming people will find this sufficient simply because they wrote it. But for someone like me who doesn't kn…

>I assume 'woit' is someone famous I should know about but don't and he or she is assuming people will find this sufficient simply because they wrote it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Woit

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#128
> If a podcaster (e.g. Sabine Hossenfelder) has a book, read the book (Lost in Math is pretty good) rather than watching the podcasts.

That's a good general takeaway, not just for physics drama. I can think of several people whose books are great or at least pretty good, but their social media presence is...Flanderized, would be a kind way of putting it.

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#129
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> finding and attacking a weak spot and declaring the entire thing flawed. It's funny because I've come to think of this exact thing as basically the defining characteristic of the HN rhetorical style. It's not unique to here of course but it's where this approach is taken most seriously as honest rigorous debate. Long time commenters here have internalized it to the point where their writing is large defensive in an…

Error: Compiler warning: Appeal to Authority fallacy detected on line 8, your argument is hereby invalid or whatever fallacy nerds like bringing up in debates, just pick your favourite one and insert it here.

> your argument is hereby invalid

Which is not-quite but sometimes leads to a Fallacy Fallacy comeback: Just because the argument is unsound doesn't mean the conclusion is wrong. :p

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#130
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What?

I know it's hard to be this online, and I don't blame you for not being. Charlie Kirk was shot by a Nick Fuentes Groyper in the ultimate escalation of an online meme war that has been leaking into the real world for at least the last 6 years. The WSJ is unable to report on this effectively, because they are insufficiently online. They need a meme culture desk.

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