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Signal Secure Backups

signal.org

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Re: Signal Secure Backups

#121
post #4

This looks brilliant. I just hope they make it easy to do test restores. In particular, I want to test restore without perturbing my main device. Let me restore using the secret key on a new device. When I install Signal on a computer it won't show me message history. Will backups allow me to view _all_ my message history on a computer? A big screen is very helpful for browsing lots of messages.

Hi there, Signal dev here. You can sort of do this! You can restore on your new device, and while you will be unregistered on your old device, all of the data is still there. So if you see that something is amiss on the new device, you could re-register on your old device and you'd be right back where you started. This is actually one of the ways we test the feature with our own personal data.

Multi-device would be a nice feature.

And question: Will a backup taken today on Androis be able to be restored on iOS once released?

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#122

I have unfortunately lost signal history on various devices. Most recently I lost my iOS history when I restored from a backup without following the right procedure to keep Signal history. I have the full history on my desktop macOS signal though. Can I use this to restore my macOS signal backup to my iOS phone, so I once again have access to all my old messages on the phone?

From the tail end of the blog post:

> The technology that underpins this initial version of secure backups will also serve as the foundation for more secure backup options in the near future. Our future plans include letting you save a secure backup archive to the location of your choosing, alongside features that let you transfer your encrypted message history between Android, iOS, and Desktop devices.

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#123
post #85
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says it is generated on your device and they don't have a copy. Sounds like a public-private keypair where you are responsible for managing the private key.

got it. doesn't Signal already have on-device keys with a session ratchet? why not back those keys up so one can decrypt the entire history on any device?

afaik the key material is regenerated for every message. new keys can be derived for every subsequent message you send, but only until you get a reply, then a new key exchange takes place. And the key material for message m1 cannot derive keys for the messages that came before m1. If the old key material gets properly deleted then there is only a very small window of compromise. backing up those keys would defeat the purpose of the ratchet.

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#124
post #8

Wow, maybe as a side effect users will be able to migrate between Android and iOS without losing their message history. Seriously, why is the migration protocol completely different on the two platforms?

Hi there, Signal dev here. The new backup format is indeed cross-platform. I've successfully restored backups on an iPhone, we're just stabilizing things :) If you're curious, the reason that Android's current local backups aren't cross platform is because it was made a long time ago, and it's literally a dump of all the sqlite statements that can be used to recreate Android's sqlite database (encrypted with a strong…

Will the new backup format support also conversion of filetypes between Android and iOS? In the past Voice Memos from Android couldn't be opened on iOS if they weren't sent directly between participants.

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#125
What is the reason for saving the end-to-end encrypted backup files on Signal backup servers instead of iCloud or Google backup service, as most of us are already paying for this storage?

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only on Android, not iOS.

It's not Signal's fault that Apple does not let you access the most basic feature of an operating system - the filesystem.

Can Signal on iOS not save in the Files app like any other app that uses documents?

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#128
@Signal devs: any reason that the only two options for backup are now "locally" (flexible, but only solves for some use-cases) or "to Signal's special servers" (not flexible; might be legally impossible for many users to enable)?

Because it seems to me that, for much of Signal's (often paranoid) audience, they'd much rather use one of the backup/sync providers they've already verified trust of, than have to additionally trust some new backup service provider.

And it also seems to me that, now that Signal has the architecture to support this, it'd be pretty easy to add additional backup-sync providers.

E.g. in the codebase for the iOS Signal client, you could implement a provider that does incremental backup sync against iCloud (i.e. CloudKit for messages + iCloud Drive for attachments) — allowing the user to use their (perhaps already paid-tier) iCloud account storage.

Same with Android and Google Drive (though Google Drive doesn't have an equivalent to CloudKit, so this might be fiddly; to get good amortized write costs, you might have to e.g. buffer row-like writes in a local replication journal, and then flush them through bulk local key inserts in a locally-partial-fetch-cached set of LevelDB files, where the updated files in the set then get flushed as single whole-file overwrites to GDrive.)

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Note that in all cases, Signal could/should still fully encrypt this data before pushing it to the provider; the backup wouldn't be expected to be "legible" to the user.

But where, with backups synced to Signal's servers, users need to trust that Signal's E2E backups encryption works perfectly to be able to believe that Signal themselves can't then have access to your backed-up data; it's much less scary to sync to literally any other provider, who won't specifically know that they've got chat data on their hands / won't have any potential to (perhaps after a bad acquisition by a PE firm) begin thinking of themselves as a "data company" who would love to have "chat data" as an asset.

Re: Signal Secure Backups

#130
I'm glad they're opening up a new revenue stream tied to something that provides real value to customers, like backups.

Hope they also may it easy to pay for family/friends, maybe similar to the "donate for a friend" they have already.

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