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US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

reuters.com

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Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#121

Post by neither_color »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #109
Guvante wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not trying to defend the actions on legal grounds. I was merely using a steelman argument to attack the actions taken as inappropriate regardless of legality.

I don’t have a strong opinion on the actions taken, I’m commenting specifically on the argument I was replying to. I see that hypocrisy critique in a lot of forms and I just don’t get it.

I actually dont think that Americans on business visas in China setting up factories and training workers was wrong. This isn't a "two wrongs make a right" argument. It would've been a long term strategic blunder for China if they had stopped it.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#123

Post by tpm »

pfannkuchen wrote: post #47
neither_color wrote: post #23

One thing missing from the public debate and I havent seen any writers I follow bring up: When US companies first started outsourcing their factories to Korea, China, and other countries, they were doing the exact same thing. They were just flying engineers over on business and tourist visas to jump start factories and train the workers. Typically only long term workers bothered getting bona fide employee visas abroa…

I don’t really understand this way of thinking. If someone from USA breaks a law at some point, that doesn’t prevent USA from enforcing a similar law in the future. Not everything is universalist - the interests of the parties are at odds here, and restricting oneself to behaving in a universalist fashion (as a nation) when nobody else does that will just put you at a disadvantage. On the Jobs example - do you expect…

> On the Jobs example - do you expect the US government to enforce Chinese law there? Does Jobs violating Chinese law affect what laws the USA can enforce decades later? This makes no sense.

China wanted high-tech manufacturing, Apple provided that, violating a few Chinese laws here and there.

The US now wants high-tech manufacturing, Hyundai wants to provide that, violating a few US laws here and there. Only the US can't decide what it really wants, so starts enforcing laws that are in conflict with Hyundai suppliers quickly flying their staff in to set up the factory. In the end the investment is too high so Hyundai most probably will finish this factory, but what message does this send to other potential investors?

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#124

Post by exabrial »

knowitnone2 wrote: post #69
exabrial wrote: post #12

Whats [additionally] infuriating for me is all of this is funded by my tax bill. Both Hyundai taking massive federal incentives, and the subsequent arrests. I just think of the money wasn't collected/handed out to them in the first place we wouldn't be in this situation.

you fail to understand basic economics. states AND countries provide tax breaks to lure in businesses with certain agreements. In the long term, this provides jobs, training, benefits local economy, income taxes, raises property values, increases property taxes, etc. And your tax contribution to would be %.0001. There are MANY things about the government to be infuriated at but this isn't one of them.

I fully understand basic economics. Thank you.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#125

Post by Guvante »

ivewonyoung wrote: post #115
Guvante wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how is that different from previous situations? I responded to someone claiming a difference in action was taken. You responded with "well that is hard" as if to reclassify action to include previous actions.

The previous situation being that such raids didn't happen, at least not on this scale. So Hyundai had zero pressure to change anything, not even bad publicity or interruption to car production via 400 workers being detained.

We just didn't raid places.

We instead took the much cheaper option of asking them to stop and in most cases they complied to avoid legal action.

This also created bad publicity and interruption.

The raid serves no purpose but to have video of people.

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#126

Post by Guvante »

ivewonyoung wrote: post #113
Guvante wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes because we didn't illegally detain them long term my point that detaining people is different then asking them to leave us bogus. Again I repeat detaining people is not the same thing as asking them to leave and pretending it is helps no one but those who want to be ignorant.

Source for the detainment being illegal?

Do you think it is legal to detain someone indefinitely for being here illegally?

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#127

Post by Guvante »

ivewonyoung wrote: post #116
Guvante wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference between enforcing the law (you can't bring workers here on a tourist visa) and raiding a factory putting everyone into jail. For the purposes of "was it a reasonable action" yes it is important to understand how the US has acted in the past.

> raiding a factory putting everyone into jail Source for everyone being put in jail?

> U.S. immigration authorities arrested 475 people on immigration violations during the raid of the Hyundai facility on Thursday

The article this discussion is about?

Re: US to target more businesses after Hyundai raid

#128

Post by ivewonyoung »

Guvante wrote: post #127
ivewonyoung wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> raiding a factory putting everyone into jail Source for everyone being put in jail?

> U.S. immigration authorities arrested 475 people on immigration violations during the raid of the Hyundai facility on Thursday The article this discussion is about?

The plant has about 1200 workers so thought I missed something about "Everyone" being arrested.
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