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Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

nature.com

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Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#121

Post by hereme888 »

melling wrote: post #79
hereme888 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think 90% of the world cares to follow what scientists said in the 1970's? All they care about is "They said 'global warming', but now some news report it's actually colder, and I've heard several scientists give presentations that it's all fake and not true. They just want to push their green agenda and are part of a conspiracy to [something]. And btw the earth is actually flat. All those satellite images are CG…

Did you know whether you are kind or insult them, you aren’t going to change their minds? The insult tends to leave a sting, and I’ve noticed people are less likely to add their misinformation the next time. At any rate, is there any climate change belief that you would like to discuss? Try to stay on topic. Digression is a common tactic. People quickly like to change the subject when they run into someone who knows…

I thought my hinted answers were clear: the climate is always changing, hence the terminology is imprecise compared to the previous, specific "Global Warming". It fuels conspiracies. The science itself is difficult, and at times has been admittedly imprecise or biased. The overzealous politicians are given an alarmist presentation, and in turn propose exaggerated solutions that threaten current livelihoods. Instead of addressing specific points during airtime, people fall back to some imprecise political comment on the matter, itself fueling distrust because the average person, while "less educated", is still sharp.

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#122

Post by npunt »

dynm wrote: post #50

This article repeats the common mistake of conflating correlations and causality. The main results are (1) that PM2.5 exposure is correlated with dementia in humans, (2) some experimental results with mice. This does not establish causality in humans. The paper is careful to stay juuuust on the right side of the line by carefully using "associated" in the right places. But the press release discards that pretense at…

(OP makes a good point, just going on a slight tangent here)

We really need a term that sits between correlation and causation in situations where data is difficult to come by. There's such a huge rift of meaning between these terms, and too often 'correlation is not causation' gets wheeled out in a room of people that already know that and are trying to figure out the nuances.

How about plausal? Aka it's rather plausible that there is a causal relationship between two things but causality is hard to prove.

"Air quality and dementia have a plausal relationship".

The bar for plausation is much lower, yet many correlates still won't meet it. "Bad air quality causes dementia" is a categorically different statement than "ice cream sales cause shark attacks", if we establish the category of plausal relationships.

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#123

Post by lazide »

bossyTeacher wrote: post #103
bitmasher9 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this brought up here every time an association article is mentioned, every undergraduate that took a statistics course has covered the difference between correlation and causation. We do population level correlation studies because sometimes a double blind study is unethical, and double blind studies is the bar for establishing causation in the medical community. We cannot give one person randomly worse air to…

> This isn’t a controversial result in the literature, it’s more evidence for what we already know —- air pollution is very bad. It is certainly controversial for individuals whose way of life (see non-electric car-centric society) is being questioned by this science. Just look at some of the cynic answers in this thread pretending that air pollution is not bad

Just because air pollution is bad, doesn’t mean it is bad in this way. It could just as easily be that some other lifestyle thing is causing dementia AND leading to living in areas with worse pm2.5.

Especially since pm2.5 tends to be higher in areas with higher population densities, near roads, industrial areas, etc.

Hell, maybe the underlying major risk factor is actually time spent in the car. Or repeated viral exposures of a specific type. Or a specific type of air pollution.

Either way, it’s not like everyone is going to be moving out of high pm2.5 areas anytime soon, or that we’ll be able to just solve the sources of pollution right now even if it is the cause.

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#124

Post by bitmasher9 »

lazide wrote: post #123
bossyTeacher wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn’t a controversial result in the literature, it’s more evidence for what we already know —- air pollution is very bad. It is certainly controversial for individuals whose way of life (see non-electric car-centric society) is being questioned by this science. Just look at some of the cynic answers in this thread pretending that air pollution is not bad

Just because air pollution is bad, doesn’t mean it is bad in this way. It could just as easily be that some other lifestyle thing is causing dementia AND leading to living in areas with worse pm2.5. Especially since pm2.5 tends to be higher in areas with higher population densities, near roads, industrial areas, etc. Hell, maybe the underlying major risk factor is actually time spent in the car. Or repeated viral exp…

How is pm2.5 not something we can have a direct impact on based on environmental laws?

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#126

Post by melling »

hereme888 wrote: post #121
melling wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you know whether you are kind or insult them, you aren’t going to change their minds? The insult tends to leave a sting, and I’ve noticed people are less likely to add their misinformation the next time. At any rate, is there any climate change belief that you would like to discuss? Try to stay on topic. Digression is a common tactic. People quickly like to change the subject when they run into someone who knows…

I thought my hinted answers were clear: the climate is always changing, hence the terminology is imprecise compared to the previous, specific "Global Warming". It fuels conspiracies. The science itself is difficult, and at times has been admittedly imprecise or biased. The overzealous politicians are given an alarmist presentation, and in turn propose exaggerated solutions that threaten current livelihoods. Instead o…

Which alarmism would you like to discuss? Can’t be vague if you want to address a problem.

Another tendency is to complain about current policies without offering any solutions.

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#127

Post by lazide »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #124
lazide wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because air pollution is bad, doesn’t mean it is bad in this way. It could just as easily be that some other lifestyle thing is causing dementia AND leading to living in areas with worse pm2.5. Especially since pm2.5 tends to be higher in areas with higher population densities, near roads, industrial areas, etc. Hell, maybe the underlying major risk factor is actually time spent in the car. Or repeated viral exp…

How is pm2.5 not something we can have a direct impact on based on environmental laws?

Ask California and all the wildfires.

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#128

Post by hereme888 »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #89
hereme888 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to be multifactorial. Per an OpenEvidence query, which cites many recent studies: "In summary, the mechanism of PM2.5-induced brain damage involves entry via the olfactory system and BBB, activation of glial cells, neuroinflammation, oxidative stress, BBB disruption, and downstream neurodegenerative changes."

Heat Shock Proteins affect the function of all of those systems . Put that into OpenEvidence... Learn about biology instead of relying on simple searches for you answers.

Learn about biology? lol, idk how much more to do so. What's your professional training background?

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#129

Post by bitmasher9 »

lazide wrote: post #127
bitmasher9 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is pm2.5 not something we can have a direct impact on based on environmental laws?

Ask California and all the wildfires.

How is wildfire frequency and severity not directly impacted by regulation?

Re: Air pollution directly linked to increased dementia risk

#130

Post by lazide »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #129
lazide wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask California and all the wildfires.

How is wildfire frequency and severity not directly impacted by regulation?

Wildfires are already illegal in California. As is producing a lot of noxious smoke! They even have an entire (rather large) government division (CALFIRE) responsible for stopping them.

For some reason, nature DGAF.

Or do you have some other policy proposal? Banning lightning or fire perhaps? Making trees illegal?

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