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Age verification doesn’t work

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Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#121

Post by lp0_on_fire »

ipaddr wrote: post #110
delusional wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously believe that 90% of current porn consumers would rather watch their pornography on websites where it's intermingled with child pornography and revenge porn, than verify their age? Are you seriously arguing that 90% of porn viewers are against digital age verification, even though about 60% of the population (in my home country) approve of the use for purchasing physical goods? In your reading of the…

Yes. Sending your government issued id to random porn sites is asking for your identity to be stolen. Sites filter out any child porn because those are different serious laws. I can live with revenge porn because it's really amateur porn labelled another way. Like supporting eco friendly porn where you walk to the hotel instead of drive. Regulating markets where someone unvested group of people decide the rules on wh…

> I can live with revenge porn because it's really amateur porn labelled another way.

"revenge porn", by definition is non-consensual. You might as well have said "I can live with rape because it's just love labeled another way".

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#122

Post by lp0_on_fire »

BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #99
freddie_mercury wrote: post #25

So the argument is that, even though age verification is required for this line of business in the real world, online it shouldn't be required because their ad-supported model won't be profitable?

They argue it won’t work and will hurt people more than it helps.

Bars and Casinos argued the exact same thing when we mandated they check the IDs of a patron before serving them a drink. The world didn't stop spinning.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#123

Post by cindyllm »

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #121
ipaddr wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Sending your government issued id to random porn sites is asking for your identity to be stolen. Sites filter out any child porn because those are different serious laws. I can live with revenge porn because it's really amateur porn labelled another way. Like supporting eco friendly porn where you walk to the hotel instead of drive. Regulating markets where someone unvested group of people decide the rules on wh…

> I can live with revenge porn because it's really amateur porn labelled another way. "revenge porn", by definition is non-consensual. You might as well have said "I can live with rape because it's just love labeled another way".

[dead]

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#124

Post by LelouBil »

chmod775 wrote: post #14

While I'll immediately believe their complaints about political shenanigans and publicity stunts going on in the EU commission, this post very obviously intentionally ignores good-faith efforts at building out privacy-preserving age verification using ZKP. They're laying into a strawman - with gusto - when they attack age verification methods that are objectively worse than the commission's best proposal. It's hurtin…

I found out about this for zero knowledge profs that are able to be separated from the issued document.

https://github.com/microsoft/crescent-credentials

The demo I saw looked really interesting but I don't have the knowledge to say if the approach is viable or not

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#125

Post by Retric »

jennyholzer wrote: post #107
Retric wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correlation is not causation, vaping didn’t need movies.

Vaping needed social media

Fads long predate social media. Instead social media and vaping came into their own on similar timelines but adoption of vaping just never saw the kind of hockey stick curve you see from a major fad.

Instead it was relatively slow taking ~10 years to hit 25 million users and ~20 years to hit 85 million users keeping it niche vs the ~1,100 million smokers.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#126

Post by Retric »

jennyholzer wrote: post #106
Retric wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaping took off as a cool thing without a bunch of cool people vaping in movies. People stopped smoking in movies at the same time a lot of other smoking related things changed. Similarly smokers likely notice people smoking in movies more than non smokers.

I remember a viral twitter photo of Sophie Turner smoking a Juul while filming the last episodes of Game of Thrones Juul changed the cultural standing of vaping and (for a very brief moment of time) made it "cool" by means of social media celebrity promotion. They were hit with pretty aggressive punishment for this by the US FDA if I'm not mistaken.

Juul was founded in May 22, 2015 well after Vaping was in a fairly flat growth trajectory, and afterwards there wasn’t any kind of noticeable bump in adoption from such efforts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cigarette#/media/Fi...

All the exponential curve stuff happened early on the path from 0 to ~10 of million.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#127

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

lp0_on_fire wrote: post #122
BriggyDwiggs42 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They argue it won’t work and will hurt people more than it helps.

Bars and Casinos argued the exact same thing when we mandated they check the IDs of a patron before serving them a drink. The world didn't stop spinning.

But the law applied to almost all bars because it’s more enforceable. I don’t mean to white knight for the porn company but I think it’s a good point.

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#128

Post by mos_basik »

dragonwriter wrote: post #117
triceratops wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't crack open the beer in front of the cashier either. That's even illegal in many jurisdictions. I go home and drink it in private, or sometimes with friends. They have literally no way to know if I give it to a minor. But that's considered good enough age verification for a substance that can be lethal if consumed to excess or before driving (which teenagers are allowed to do). I haven't heard a good explanati…

> I haven't heard a good explanation for why my proposal is bad other than it's not perfect. It has the same flaw as the common age verification laws: it is unnecessarily intrusive; but I wasn’t, in the grandparent post, commenting on the merits, I was commenting on your description of the proposal as being both very different from what is currently being proposed and “just like buying alcohol or tobacco”, since it i…

>it is nothing like buying alcohol and tobacco

The intent of the "I don't crack open a beer.." post was to draw a comparison between "show ID at physical store then later open and drink the beer at home" and "show ID at physical store then later submit the token and watch the porn at home".

>and shares the basic features which are different and more intrusive

How so?

Are you maybe assuming that some entity (the ID issuer? the physical store?) would track an association between the ID shown and the token purchased?

I suppose anything's possible, but that's not how the alcohol system works: when I show ID to purchase alcohol, the cashier looks at it and hands it back to me without recording anything. The same could work in this case, except the product changing hands is a scratch card carrying a number I type into a form on a website later.

(fwiw I don't particularly support age verification; I'm just thinking about how strong your criticisms of this proposal are.)

(OP described a single-site token with a 1 year lifetime, but I'm not sure what I think of the single-siteness. Seems like it means either every site prints its own cards, distinguishable from other site's cards, meaning the cashier can judge one's taste in adult entertainment (just like they can judge one's taste in alcohol I suppose) and when a site folds, its cards are landfill. Alternatively, there's a central authority printing the cards and tracking which have been consumed and for which site and when they expire. And that doesn't seem great either.)

Re: Age verification doesn’t work

#130

Post by _mu »

ckbkr10 wrote: post #8

I wish there was a honest discussion, I am with them about parents not giving a shit and pushing away responsibility. The idea of supervision in education institutions is good as well. The kids in my family were well protected and supervised, they got into contact with hardcore porn at the age of 6 when other kids had access to smartphones and exposed them to it. I would like to see a honest discussion about the impa…

What is really missing is good sex education in schools, especially public schools - and in particular in the United States. The state of sex education in America actually deserves the work deplorable, it's so bad.

Looking at this comment thread, I get the sense that people are coming from vastly different backgrounds and upbringings. There's no baseline established for what people are trying to discuss.

There are a lot of topics that should simply be explained to children up front from a very early age. When a topic is not shrouded in mystery, it becomes boring. So kids should learn from an early age what is sex, puberty, menstruation, homosexuality, etc. and it should be presented in a manner-of-fact way that takes the emotional charge out of the picture. When people are educated, they have more latitude to make good decisions.

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