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The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

iflscience.com

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Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, it has generally been believed that the Wow signal didn't come from Earth. But being a rare event no one wanted to rule it out completely. Technically these papers don't even rule that out. But they do a good job at expanding the problem of figuring out what that signal might have been. I'll put it this way: people would probably be more surprised if the Wow signal was terrestrial in origin than extra…

I actually briefly worked as a "paranormal investigator" when I was hard up for money --- someone came to me with some satellite photos they felt had evidence of UFOs. I found a scientist who ran said satellites, who explained what seemed odd were artificacts of the instrument, and they were only noticed because they occured in the area of the Nimitz[1], which then got heavily OSINTed by the woo woo crowd. I never to…

Thanks for sharing. I think we're seeing a lot of the same thing occurring in these comments. :(

You'd probably be interested in my main comment too[0]. The signal has always been a terrible candidate for alien communication. Classic conspiracy problem where people become fixated on one aspect while ignoring all others.

Like Carl Sagan said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary science". It's sad but I think a lot of people just have these deep misunderstandings of what science actually is and how it works. There's also the really unfortunate human bias in how we read people in positions of authority[1]. Science makes you second guess and forces you to consider everything probabilistically. Nuance and detail dominate. Hard truth is that the world is noisy and figuring things out is hard.

But I think one of the most important things I have learned in life is that truth has a lower bound in complexity while lies don't. You should make things as simple as possible but to make simpler requires losing accuracy. Just because something can't be explained to a layman doesn't mean the person doesn't understand it, it means the topic is complex. Simplicity only ends up coming after a lot of work and dealing with the complexities.

To get side tracked a little, I have a proposal for a great filter: complexity. Any naturally evolved civilization is likely to have brains that preference simplicity and push against complexity. It's natural because complexity simply requires more computational power and that'd be a poor evolutionary strategy. You want enough to get the advantage but nor more. So when these civilizations advance they are likely to get to a point where the system they have created is far more complex that their brains can naturally handle. I think humans are in such a situation right now. No one person can understand the complexities of current issues be that from Global Warming to Geopolitics. We can do these things collectively but not individually. It's absolutely amazing what we've been able to accomplish, but I think if we're to continue we'll also have to recognize how incredible these accomplishments actually are. So the great filter is not some concrete event like Nuclear War or Global Warming (things that there's a good chance those civilizations also face), but the more abstract filter of abstraction itself. Eventually a civilization needs to cross the bridge from where its people can understand enough to navigate major problems of their world to one they aren't. Just seems unlikely brains would evolve fast enough to keep pace, since it is easier to create complexity than to understand it.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45034860

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45000418

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#122
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We won't. while we don't know for sure if there is life there is nothing close enough to contact. The closest star is 4 light years, anything within 20 light years has been studied and has no signs of radio or other communication. Anything more than 20 light years is a 40 year message round trip - too far to establish contact in your likely lifetime. (If you are very young maybe 30 light years - but that doesn't add…

HN armchair astronomer question time. What's your favorite answer to the Fermi Paradox? Any crazy far-fetched sci-fi / pseudo-scientific ideas? I'm not really a fan of "Dark Forest". I prefer these: - We're truly rare, maybe even first. Intelligence is extremely hard. LUCA is old, civilization happened yesterday. - Fragile universe. It's easy to destroy universes by accidentally setting off vacuum collapse. This woul…

  > What's your favorite answer to the Fermi Paradox?
Space big + speed of light is too slow. Sprinkle in a little "suns are fucking loud as shit" but the first two are more than enough to explain all of it. Not to mention the million other factors that make transmitting a viable signal across interstellar distances an incredibly challenging problem.

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#123

Can we ban IFLScience links? They're notoriously bad science reporters. A few submissions by them seem to have hit the front page recently and I'm not sure why. This article is a perfect example. There's no reason to talk about aliens here except for dramatization. I mean what even is this article? It has always been widely believed that the signal did not originate from Earth. Not impossible, but thought to come fro…

[deleted]

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand they could still see us as a threat to the collective due to our levels of aggression, and eliminate us to protect themselves.

It's a safe bet that if they know about us at all they'll just stay away from us. Our media is filled with depictions of us killing aliens. There's little reason to think we'd accept them. We can't even get along with/accept other humans. Some people's first instinct will be to shoot them. Others will want to lock them up and experiment on them. If aliens did come here they'd have to be very brave, powerful enough no…

The most horrifying aspect of the hypothesis as depicted in the Dark Forest book is that it was simply the job of a low-level bureaucrat to identify "low-entropy entities which lack the hiding gene" within their region of the galaxy and allocate a basic bottom-shelf munition to "cleanse" it.

However, humans were aware of this possibility and had spent centuries reorganizing the solar system to have a measure of resilience to it. So, to humanity's great credit, he had to go get permission from his supervisor for to deploy a next-tier solution.

"Why would anyone travel across town (i.e., the galaxy) just to step on an anthill?" We have a whole industry dedicated to exterminating any other life that invades "our" living space. It's considered an unremarkable necessity.

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#125
post #97

My money is still on the janitor plugging a faulty vaccum cleaner in the wrong electrical socket!

There is a theory that if we could find the same janitor and get them to plug the same broken vacuum cleaner to the same socket in exactly the same way, mankind's energy problem will be forever solved, one way or the other.

There is another theory that this has already happened.

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These nutjobs still don't want to grasp the reality that the UFO sighting at Area 51 was the radar test of the A-12 prototype, which was made out of shiny unpainted titanium and done in the salt desert due to its properties of absorbing electromagnetic waves. And then some people that saw this around Roswell were spreading the rumor of UFOs because at the time that was the trend on television. Always bet on stupidity…

It wasn’t the A-12 but a precursor. The A-12 didn’t come about until the late 50s. The Roswell incident happened in the late 40s. There were a few experiments with supersonic jet propulsion around that time. There were also Generals who would gladly stoke the UFO flames to protect the secrecy of their anti-radar research. I know this because my family was involved.

> It wasn’t the A-12 but a precursor. The A-12 didn’t come about until the late 50s. The Roswell incident happened in the late 40s.

> There were a few experiments with supersonic jet propulsion around that time. There were also Generals who would gladly stoke the UFO flames to protect the secrecy of their anti-radar research.

You're right with the timeline that the initial rumors didn't start with the A-12 radar tests, but they were reinforced by it. Initially, Project Mogul's crash of the balloon array triggered the rumors, but it's not as fancy and couldn't be interpreted as an "alien spaceship", even at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually briefly worked as a "paranormal investigator" when I was hard up for money --- someone came to me with some satellite photos they felt had evidence of UFOs. I found a scientist who ran said satellites, who explained what seemed odd were artificacts of the instrument, and they were only noticed because they occured in the area of the Nimitz[1], which then got heavily OSINTed by the woo woo crowd. I never to…

Thanks for sharing. I think we're seeing a lot of the same thing occurring in these comments. :( You'd probably be interested in my main comment too[0]. The signal has always been a terrible candidate for alien communication. Classic conspiracy problem where people become fixated on one aspect while ignoring all others. Like Carl Sagan said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary science". It's sad but I think a…

Your take on complexity as a filter reminded me of a fascinating paper I read. You might find it interesting because it claims that evolution does tend to favor simplicity, except when under a certain kind of pressure.

The paper is titled "Nothing in evolution makes sense except in the light of parasitism: evolution of complex replication strategies" and you can find it at https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsos.210441

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN armchair astronomer question time. What's your favorite answer to the Fermi Paradox? Any crazy far-fetched sci-fi / pseudo-scientific ideas? I'm not really a fan of "Dark Forest". I prefer these: - We're truly rare, maybe even first. Intelligence is extremely hard. LUCA is old, civilization happened yesterday. - Fragile universe. It's easy to destroy universes by accidentally setting off vacuum collapse. This woul…

Creationism.

[flagged]

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually briefly worked as a "paranormal investigator" when I was hard up for money --- someone came to me with some satellite photos they felt had evidence of UFOs. I found a scientist who ran said satellites, who explained what seemed odd were artificacts of the instrument, and they were only noticed because they occured in the area of the Nimitz[1], which then got heavily OSINTed by the woo woo crowd. I never to…

Thanks for sharing. I think we're seeing a lot of the same thing occurring in these comments. :( You'd probably be interested in my main comment too[0]. The signal has always been a terrible candidate for alien communication. Classic conspiracy problem where people become fixated on one aspect while ignoring all others. Like Carl Sagan said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary science". It's sad but I think a…

> truth has a lower bound in complexity while lies don't

Very well said

Re: The “Wow!” signal was likely from extraterrestrial source, and more powerful

#130
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks... The fact that websites are now blocking Firefox by default as an "ad-blocker" is saddening.

I pasted the URL into firefox, and didn't see that huge "you're using an adblocker popup". I opened a firefox private window and navigated to it from the HN page, and got the adblocker popup. Right now I have two tabs open in the same non-private window, one showing the adblocker popup and one not. In the one that's not I can view the whole page. Reloading in the one that is not showing the adblocker popup then showe…

I do everything in private by default, so I clicked on the link from a private HN tab and did not get the popup on firefox mobile.
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