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Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

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Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#121

Post by umbra07 »

xphos wrote: post #118
umbra07 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can literally just system-prompt-fix that kind of problem though.

Then why do chat bots still make stuff up? If it is so easily fixable. I think knowing what is actually true is very difficult and chat bots are struggling against a hard problem

I mean, if you use SOTA models, they just about never hallucinate on these sorts of topics (elementary through lower-division college math), school-level history, science, etc. I only ever see hallucinations when using non-SOTA models, when using an intermediary product, asking about obscure information, or occasionally coding. I don't think any of that applies to being a elementary-high-school tutor.

Writing is probably the most difficult subject, because even now it's difficult to prompt an LLM to write in a human intonation - but they will do a perfectly good job at explaining how to write (here's a basic essay structure, here are words we avoid in formal writing, etc). You can even augment a writing tutor chatbot by making it use specific, human-written excerpts from English textbooks, instead of allowing it to generate example paragraphs and essays.

Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#122

Post by nlawalker »

MikeTheGreat wrote: post #112
nlawalker wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chiming in here just because I happen to have taken a handful of online-proctored certification exams through Pearson OnVUE recently. The gist of it is that I think someone willing to put a lot of work in could probably cheat using the strategies you suggest, but it would be a pain. During your checkin you have to send a selfie, photos of the front and back of your photo ID, and four photos of the space you've prepar…

I'm curious what the live video stream captures. Is it you, your desk, and several feet around you (i.e., enough to confirm that there's nothing else near you)? It seems like they need enough to do ongoing, real-time confirmation that your workspace keeps matching the still images you sent in. FWIW the 'privacy' concern is often voiced by students who find the test proctoring intrusive. On the one hand I agree it's i…

The testing app shows you your video stream in real time, it's relatively tightly zoomed and cropped to your face. This is what leads me to believe that they rely heavily on eye tracking (and sound, they require that your mic be capturing too) to look for suspicious behavior. I'm not sure, because it's never happened to me, but I believe the proctor has the ability to interrupt your test and request that you show them the room.

The requirement is that you remain in place and keep your face on camera for the duration of the test, but depending on the test there's an "unscheduled break" functionality that will let you take an unsupervised break, at the cost of locking you out of all of the questions you have already seen on the test so far.

Pearson OnVUE: https://www.pearsonvue.com/us/en/test-takers/onvue-online-pr...

Microsoft-specific documentation of the online testing process: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/credentials/certifications...

Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#123

Post by refulgentis »

everybodyknows wrote: post #110
refulgentis wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, how is AI assistance on an in class exam even possible? I can't picture how AI changed anything from, say, post-iPhone. i.e. I expect there to be holes in security re: bathroom breaks, but even in 2006 they confiscated cell phones during exams. I guess what I'm asking is, how did AI shift the status quo for in class exams over, say, Safari?

Why would anyone downvote this thoughtful question?

Been here 15 years and there's just more voting based on gut vibe the last year or two. I don't really comment that much anymore after a crazier incident a month ago.

Feels like when /r/nba got too "joke-y" for me to participate. Asking a question without performative vulnerability that sounds fake to most will sound "aggressive" or "putting down" to most in a generic social environment. (i.e. one where loudness / randomness / 'being polite', i.e. not asking questions or inducing cognitive load rule)

Thanks for noticing and saying something. Ngl it made me feel bad like I did something wrong.

Re: Bring Back the Blue-Book Exam

#124

Post by euroderf »

Syzygies wrote: post #36

One can't have an informed opinion on this without witnessing how grading a college exam takes place, first hand. Grading a stack of blue books is a "just kill me now" brutal experience. A majority of cognitive effort is just finding the page for the next problem to grade, with finding the answer another delay; any programming language with this kind of access latency would stay a "one bus" language. So of course pro…

If you try to blow thru all the books in one pass, it's grossly unbalanced for the head and tail, and many books in-between.

I did it in three passes - which might be all in one session or might be broken into smaller sessions. First, skim them all for spelling & grammar mistakes, with a red pen. Second, read them all (but not too deeply) to identify where they make key points, with a green pen. At this point you have a really good handle on the general level of accomplishment. Third, take a blue pen and comment them and grade them.

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