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Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

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Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#121

Post by echelon »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #70
jmull wrote: post #45

I think Apple should mostly be allowed to run as crappy an App Store as they want. But people should also be able to get apps from whatever store they want. (Ground rules all app stored would have to follow based on technical, security, and legal concerns would be fine too, IMO.) Of course Apple would never go for that, so we'll end up with whatever mess legal processes can wring out of them.

> But people should also be able to get apps from whatever store they want. This the answer. The app store monopoly doesn't really matter, the real tyranny is needing Apple's cryptographic blessing to run software on our own computers. This should be literally illegal. Restore our computer freedom and their app store rent seeking becomes irrelevant.

> > But people should also be able to get apps from whatever store they want.

The web. Without scare walls or hidden "enable downloads" menu settings.

And apps should no longer have to use first party payment rails, first party authentication/sign in rails, or be forced to jump through review or upgrade hoops.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#122

Post by oefrha »

Aloisius wrote: post #63
nickthegreek wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giving away free software on the appstore is gonna cost you $100/yr developer license. Sure, the more apps you make dilutes the cost, but it doesn’t seem like that inviting of a space for maintained free apps.

Free for non-profits though. I'm a little surprised there isn't an open source non-profit set up to act as an umbrella for open source iOS app development.

Then one bad app and the whole account is nuked. Not a great setup unless with explicit blessing from Apple, which they won’t give.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#123

Post by mhh__ »

echelon wrote: post #109
bloomca wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it allowed to charge more in storefronts which take these cuts? Why nobody does that? What about Steam? Can a publisher sell a game for ~$45 in their store and $60 in Steam, or is it against some TOC?

Games are silly and inessential. And there are a dozen markets to choose from. Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Steam, GOG, Epic, Ubisoft, Humble, Itch, direct download, retro games, ... Phones are essential. You can't get a job without one. It's impossible to stay connected or navigate without one. You can't even order food in a restaurant these days without your smartphone. Yet two companies control and tax the entirety…

I bet there are quite a few people out there who actually have a phone with a faster single thread perf than their laptop i.e. latest iPhone + a crappy windows laptop

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#124

Post by jachee »

rootusrootus wrote: post #64

If there was more than a duopoly in smartphones, I'd say Apple should be able to have whatever horrible app policy they want, so long as it is clearly communicated to everyone including customers. Let the market decide. But that's not where we are. I think it makes sense to treat both Apple and Google as de facto monopolies with respect to the smartphone market, and impose some regulation on what they have to allow a…

Didn’t we “let the market decide” and the market drowned out every other player but Apple and Google?

Why did so many people pick iPhone or Android over their prior competitors? Because the developers wrote software there. Why did the devs write software there? Because people were picking those ecosystems. It was an upward spiral that changed the world a LOT in 18 years, but it was all started with Apple—being a hardware company—selling premium-quality hardware, and then adding their support for third party development.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#125

Post by knifie_spoonie »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #75

I don’t care that developers have to pay 30%, it makes no difference to me. If that fee went away… it would just give them 30% more profit.

Developers getting paid better is a good thing, surely?

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#126

Post by dijit »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #75

I don’t care that developers have to pay 30%, it makes no difference to me. If that fee went away… it would just give them 30% more profit.

I think the argument here is that there's less good apps because it's a difficult market and your profits are being garnished too aggressively for it to be a viable option when seeking investment for novel ideas.

It's not about "having less profit" necessarily, it's about it being a more risky business with a lower potential ceiling making investment less likely and thus: a dearth of Apps.

(reading charitably, of course).

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#127

Post by [deleted] »

foobarian wrote: post #39
dlcarrier wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A family member of mine has an Apple phone, and the lack of availability of not just open source software but even freeware or freemium software astounds me. They make it so difficult to distribute anything, that it's not worth it unless you are getting significant revenue. This means that often the only option is something extremely scammy that charges monthly for the most trivial capabilities. Of course, Apple gets…

You know how we got here? It used to be a free-for-all where grandma could download any software off the Internet on her Windows computer. You know how the rest went. I honestly don't mind it. It's so easy to recommend an iPhone to non-technical users, knowing the app store is still not compromised with low quality/malicious garbage. (Sure it requires a bit of expectation attenuation but the Android app stores are wo…

[deleted]

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#128

Post by 1123581321 »

dlcarrier wrote: post #3
bentocorp wrote: post #2

I recently wrote about how Apple now has the most hostile developer ecosystem of any major platform: https://www.magiclasso.co/insights/apple-development/ Good to see VCs and Y Combinator now supporting and pushing for change.

A family member of mine has an Apple phone, and the lack of availability of not just open source software but even freeware or freemium software astounds me. They make it so difficult to distribute anything, that it's not worth it unless you are getting significant revenue. This means that often the only option is something extremely scammy that charges monthly for the most trivial capabilities. Of course, Apple gets…

How did you conclude the lack of freeware? Both the Apple and Google app stores have a couple million apps, and most of them (about 95% in the App Store’s case) are free.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#129

Post by bruce511 »

throwaway31131 wrote: post #113
rootusrootus wrote: post #64

If there was more than a duopoly in smartphones, I'd say Apple should be able to have whatever horrible app policy they want, so long as it is clearly communicated to everyone including customers. Let the market decide. But that's not where we are. I think it makes sense to treat both Apple and Google as de facto monopolies with respect to the smartphone market, and impose some regulation on what they have to allow a…

We probably do need some kind of regulation in this space because for better or worse, and I think it’s worse, it’s hard to be a participant in modern society without a smart phone. (In my mind it would be something more akin to the communications act of 1934, but for apps to mandate a certain amount of “interoperability” across operating systems, whatever that may mean, but I digress) on the other hand, it wasn’t al…

I would argue that there was more than a duopoly. We had Windows Phone, WebOS, blackberry, Palm etc. The market voted and we're left with 2.

Equally, pretty much no iPhone user (outside of tech circles) cares about the App Store monopoly for iPhone. The policy is well known, and hasn't changed in 15 years.

Indeed many (not all) tech folk who complain about the App Store still went out and bought an iPhone.

The raw truth is that the market did decide. And no we don't need regulation. Apple and Google have different enough policies for there to be choice. In some countries Android has dominant market share.

Re: Y Combinator files brief supporting Epic Games, says store fees stifle startups

#130

Post by andsoitis »

rootusrootus wrote: post #64

If there was more than a duopoly in smartphones, I'd say Apple should be able to have whatever horrible app policy they want, so long as it is clearly communicated to everyone including customers. Let the market decide. But that's not where we are. I think it makes sense to treat both Apple and Google as de facto monopolies with respect to the smartphone market, and impose some regulation on what they have to allow a…

> treat both Apple and Google as de facto monopolies with respect to the smartphone market

Apple and Google can’t both be monopolists of the smartphone market (or even app stores). By definition, if there’s more than one seller, there is no monopoly.

I suppose you could say Apple is the monopolist if the iPhone market or the iPhone App Store market. You can’t say Google is the monopolist of the Android phone market or the Android App Store market.

But neither one, and certainly not both, can be the monopolist of the smartphone market or the smartphone app store market.

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