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AI is impressive because we've failed at personal computing

rakhim.exotext.com

121–130 of 190 posts

Re: AI is impressive because we've failed at personal computing

#121
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely this. This article might seem reasonable to anybody who has never tried to organize something as simple as a local music collection.

Well, this runs straight into one of the massive, concrete pillars of computing: naming things. Because that’s what a lot of this falls into. Overwhelming amount of stuff with no names. No categories, no nothing. With extended file attributes we could hang all sorts of meta bits off of arbitrary files. But that’s very fragile. So we ask the systems to make up names for data based on their content, which turns out to…

No names is not the biggest problem. You just have to come up with a name. The problem is when things have multiple names, or even worse when people disagree on what names are appropriate for something. The world rarely allows you to neatly categorize large datasets. There are always outliers.

For example, you have a set of balls and you want to sort them by color. Where does orange stop and red begin? What about striped balls or ones with logos printed on them? What if it is a hypercolor ball that changes based on heat? It gets messy very fast.

Re: AI is impressive because we've failed at personal computing

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is counting the number of B's vital? Also, I'm pretty sure you can get an LLM to parse text the way you want it, it just doesn't see your text as you do, so that simple operation is not straightforward. Similarly, are you worthless because you seem like you understand language but are incapable of counting the number of octects in "blueberry"?

As shown by the GPT-5 reaction, a majority of people just have nothing better to ask the models than how many times does the letter "s" appear in "stupid".

I think this is a completely valid thing to do when you have Sam Altman going on the daily shows and describing it as a genius in your pocket and how it's smarter than any human alive. Deflating hype bubbles is an important service.

Re: AI is impressive because we've failed at personal computing

#123
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eh I feel this but it's a lot simpler than that. Not "if everyone built everything correctly" but "if everyone's work was even slightly better than complete garbage". I do not see many examples of companies building things that are not complete embarrassing shit. I worked at some companies and the things we built was complete embarrassing shit. The reasons are obvious: nobody cares internally to do it, and nobody ext…

> the money still flows if you do a bad job so why do better? I'll raise. The money flows because you do a bad job. Doing a good job is costly and takes time. The money cannot invest that much time and resources. Investing time and resources builds an ordinary business. The money is in for the casino effect, for the bangs. Pull the arm and see if it sticks. If yes, good. Keep pulling the arm. If not, continue with an…

I would argue that the money is short termism though. It just assumes short term returns are the correct choice because it lacks the technical understanding of the long term benefits of a good job.

In my experience many acquisitions set the peak of a given software product. The money then makes the argument that its "good enough" and flogs the horse until its dead and a younger more agile team of developers eventually build a new product that makes it irrelevant. The only explanation I have for why so many applications fail to adapt is because of a cultural issue between the software and the money, that always gets resolved by the money winning.

For example I would suggest that the vast majority of desktop apps, especially those made by SMEs, originally in MFC or something fail to make the transition to online services that they need today because of this conflict. The company ends up dying and the money never works out what it did wrong because its much harder to appreciate those long term effects than the short term ones that gave them more money at the start.

Re: AI is impressive because we've failed at personal computing

#124
post #5

I have often thought about how computers are significantly faster than they were in the early 2000s, but they are significantly harder to use. Using Linux for the first time in college was a revelation, because it gave me the tools to tell the computer "rename all of the files in this directory, keeping only the important parts of the name." But instead of iterating on better interfaces to effectively utilize the N t…

Prompt: "Spell blueberry and count the letter b".

They're not claiming AGI yet, so human intelligence is required to operate an LLM optimally. It's well known that LLMs process tokens rather than characters s, so without space for "reasoning" there's no representation of the letter b in the prompt. Telling it to spell or think about it gives it room to spell it out, and from there it can "see" the letters and it's trivial to count.

Re: AI is impressive because we've failed at personal computing

#125
I sympathize so much with the failure of personal computing to manifest!

> My point is that if all knowledge were stored in a structured way with rich semantic linking, then very primitive natural language processing algorithms could parse question like the example at the beginning of the article, and could find the answer using orders of magnitude fewer computational resources. And most importantly: the knowledge and the connections would remain accessible and comprehensible, not hidden within impenetrable AI models.

It's a pocket hope of mine that AI brings us back to the Semantic Web, or something very like it. In many ways these embeddings are giant non-human lexicons already. Distilling this information out seems so possible.

Even just making an AI to go markup (or uhh perhaps refine) a page with microdata seems conceptually very doable!

More broadly, looking at personal computing: my personal belief is that failure is hugely because of apps. Instead of a broader personal computing that aggregates, that allows constructivism, that enables personal growth & development (barefoot developers & home-cooked software style), computing has been defined by massificstion, by big tech software. The dominant computing paradigm has been mainframe pattern: we the user have an app that acts as a terminal to some far off cloud-y data center. Whatever agency we get is hewn out for us apriori by product teams, and any behavior not explicitly built in is a "Felony Contempt of Business Model" (an oh so accurate Doctorow-ism)! https://maggieappleton.com/home-cooked-software https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40633029 https://pluralistic.net/2022/10/20/benevolent-dictators/#fel... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33279274

It is so so sad to see computing squandered so!

The good news is AI is changing this relationship with software. I'm sure we will have no end of AI models built in to our software, that companies will maintain the strict control (tyrant's grip) over software as long as they can! But for AI to flourish, it's going to need to work across systems. And that means tearing down some of the walls, walls that have forcibly kept computing (ardently) anti-personal.

I can go look at https://github.com/punkpeye/awesome-mcp-servers and take such great hope from it. Hundreds of ways that we have eeked out a way to talk interface with systems that, before, people had no say and no control over.

Re: AI is impressive because we've failed at personal computing

#126
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably the spectrum that would have Rust and Typescript at the other end.

Is that just age?

Well, sure, age is part of it. I would hope languages coming out 40-50 years after their predecessors (in the case of Rust following C/C++) would have improved upon those predecessors and learned from the ideas of computer science in the intermediate years.

(Coincidentally this is one of my chief complaints about Go: despite being about the same age as Rust, it took the avenue of discarding quite a lot of advancements in programming language theory and ergonomics since C)

Re: AI is impressive because we've failed at personal computing

#127
post #7

Expresses a longing for the semantic web. > Remember Semantic Web? The web was supposed to evolve into semantically structured, linked, machine-readable data that would enable amazing opportunities. That never happened. I think the lesson to be learned is in answering the question "Why didn't the semantic web happen?"

The semantic web was theoretically great for data scientists and metadata scrapers, but offered close to zero value for ordinary humans, both on the publishing side an the consumption side. Also, nobody did the hard work of defining all of the categories and protocols in a way that was actually usable.

The whole concept was too high minded and they never got the implementation details down. Even if they did it would have been horrendously complex and close to impossible to manage. Asking every single publisher to neatly categories their data into this necessarily enormous scheme would have resulted in countless errors all over the web that would have seriously undercut the utility of the project anyway. Ultimately the semantic web doesn't scale very well. It failed for the same reason command economies fail: It's too overwhelming for the people in control to manage and drowns in its own bureaucracy.

Re: AI is impressive because we've failed at personal computing

#129
Cyc[0] tried for 40 years to make handwritten semantic rules a thing, but still don't have much to show for. Humans just aren't good or fast at writing down the rather fuzzy semantics of the real world into a computer readable format.

With RDF specially, there was also the issue of "WTF is this good for?". Semantic Web sounds lofty in theory, but was there ever even a clear plan on how the UI would look like? How would I explore all that semantic data if it ever came into existence? How would it deal with link rot?

And much like with RSS, I think a big failure of RDF is that it's some weird thing outside the Web, instead of just some addition HTML tags to enrich existing documents. If there is a failure, it's that. Even today, a lot of basic semantic tags are missing from HTML, we finally got in 2011, but we still have nothing for names, cities, units, books[1], movie, gps coordinates and a lot of other stuff we use daily.

Another big failure is that HTML has become a read-only format, the idea that one uses HTML as a source format to publish documents seems to have been completely abandoned. HTML is just a UI language for Web apps nowadays, Markdown, LaTeX or whatever is what one uses to write content.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyc

1. exists, but browsers don't support it natively

Re: AI is impressive because we've failed at personal computing

#130

I feel like I see this attitude a lot amongst devs: "If everyone just built it correctly, we wouldn't need these bandaids" To me, it feels similar to "If everyone just cooperated perfectly and helped each other out, we wouldn't need laws/money/government/religion/etc." Yes, you're probably right, but no that won't happen the way you want to, because we are part of a complex system, and everyone has their very differe…

The phrase “if everyone just” is an automatic trigger for me. Everyone is never going to just. A different solution to whatever the problem is will be necessary.
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