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I tried Servo

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Re: I tried Servo

#121

Post by spankalee »

nicoburns wrote: post #51
nashashmi wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you propose standards to the web groups? I want to propose CSS-inheritance—by-name (#box {inherit:$(#menu)}) and the reintroduction of marquee tags for horizontal scrolling (a frequently used UI pattern on shopping sites).

> How do you propose standards to the web groups? I'm not sure. I tried opening an issue at https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts but that didn't get me very far. I suspect it's a case of making connections and then getting yourself an invite to present at a meeting.

If you can socialize your idea to a few of the people that show up frequently in the issues, it can really help. See if there's someone with open DMs, tell them you work on CSS in Servo, and ask what they think.

Re: I tried Servo

#122

Post by nicoburns »

jqpabc123 wrote: post #34
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The string of departures and how people communicated around them let me think it’s something a lot less nefarious: Mozilla looked like an extremely political company at the time. Servo was extremely good at communication with their very frequent news letter and Rust had a lot of wind in its sails, I wouldn’t be surprised if that ruffled the wrong feathers. Mozilla is very much still managed by what remains of its old…

That would be pure incompetence from the top For which they are compensated very well. It just doesn't make sense does it?

No, but it's not mozilla-specific. It's true of almost every large corporation.

Re: I tried Servo

#123

Post by bornfreddy »

StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #21
jqpabc123 wrote: post #2

It's still baffling to me that Mozilla threw out Firefox's technical future Very little about Mozilla makes sense --- until you follow the money.

The string of departures and how people communicated around them let me think it’s something a lot less nefarious: Mozilla looked like an extremely political company at the time. Servo was extremely good at communication with their very frequent news letter and Rust had a lot of wind in its sails, I wouldn’t be surprised if that ruffled the wrong feathers. Mozilla is very much still managed by what remains of its old…

The way this world is going, you shouldn't attribute to incompetence what can be attributed to malice.

Re: I tried Servo

#124

Post by goku12 »

Macha wrote: post #94
airstrike wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm super biased in favor of iced. Yes, there are missing features (it's not even version 1.0 yet!) but I think the number is very small now and the solution is usually to fill in the gaps yourself—which is possible because iced is totally modular I've made a spreadsheet editor and a slideshow editor with it so "slimmed down photoshop" seems feasible although admittedly you will likely need to get deep into the rende…

No support for RTL or CJK text, IMEs, or accessibility tools leaves it pretty firmly in the "toy" category for me for now, sadly. This isn't meant to bash on the project specifically, basically the only tools that meet that criteria are platform native UIs, the web stack (including Electron), Qt and Flutter. AccessKit is promising to change that but I haven't checked in a while how it's going. I did see GTK looking i…

> No support for RTL or CJK text, IMEs, or accessibility tools leaves it pretty firmly in the "toy" category for me for now, sadly.

I18n, L10n and A11y tend to be very challenging features, making your wishlist a tall order. Solving that will require a larger developer mindshare. (I'm not sure how much of the existing frameworks can be reused here).

> basically the only tools that meet that criteria are platform native UIs ...

Here's the good news! Iced is already a platform native UI toolkit. It powers the Cosmic desktop and a few important applications are based on it. Iced is sure to receive a lot of attention once Cosmic stabilizes. Hopefully, you will get your wish sooner than later.

Re: I tried Servo

#125

Post by johnisgood »

f311a wrote: post #36
Gualdrapo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still strongly believe Servo can be a real counterpoint to Chrome/Chromium's hegemony in the long haul. Not sure why Mozilla ditched it nor why The Linux Foundation gives little to no support at all to it.

WebKit is a nice competitor, too. Look at Orion browser, it's a pretty decent competitor. Although they only target macOS, WebKit can be used on Windows and Linux, too.

Orion does not target macOS only, well primarily yes, for now, but check out this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44708445.

Someone said "It’s coming on Linux (scheduled for March 2026). See https://kagi.com/changelog#6479".

Re: I tried Servo

#126

Post by rrgok »

> This is a danger to the open web in more ways than one. If there is only one functioning implementation of a standard, the implementation becomes the standard.

I still don't understand why this is a problem. As long as the engine implementing the spec - governed by committee formed by entities other than Google itself - is open source. The problem and the waste of resource is how we are behaving now.

The browser engine should become as the Linux Kernel: one engine and different distros.

Re: I tried Servo

#127

Post by mrob »

rrgok wrote: post #126

> This is a danger to the open web in more ways than one. If there is only one functioning implementation of a standard, the implementation becomes the standard. I still don't understand why this is a problem. As long as the engine implementing the spec - governed by committee formed by entities other than Google itself - is open source. The problem and the waste of resource is how we are behaving now. The browser en…

I disagree. The more browser engines in use the less damage any one security exploit can do. This matters even with memory safe languages, because logic errors can be just as damaging, e.g. the Log4j exploit.

Re: I tried Servo

#129

Post by mrob »

fabrice_d wrote: post #84
throw839340949r wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ladybird has better results in web rendering tests than Servo, and slowly is gaining on Firefox. They are already quite competitive.

Ladybird is extremely slow, it's far from being competitive at all.

All browsers are fast enough once you block all the useless web bloat.

Re: I tried Servo

#130

Post by bornfreddy »

materielle wrote: post #116
YmiYugy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just don't get the point of ladybird. They have full time engineers and are soliciting donations, so it's clearly more than a hobby project. Maybe my assumptions are off, but I just can't imagine they could ever become competitive in terms of features, security and performance with the big engines. Blink is setting the pace, Webkit is barely able to keep up and Gecko is slowly falling behind. All of these teams are…

I think there are two things to keep in mind. 1) Apple and Firefox have enough resources to implement the most recent web standards. When you see a feature which goes un-implemented for too long, it’s almost surely because nobody was even working on it because of internal resourcing fights. 2) Devs aren’t created equal. It’s possible for a team of 8 people to be 10x more productive than another team of 8.

> When you see a feature which goes un-implemented for too long, it’s almost surely because nobody was even working on it because of internal resourcing fights.

Or because they are reluctant to implement it for technical reasons? Not every "standard" that gets thrown on the table and implemented by Google is a brilliant idea.

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