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‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

latimes.com

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Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#121

Post by rsyring »

echelon_musk wrote: post #99
tedivm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't an occupation, it's an ethnic cleansing.

Deuteronomy 9:4 > After the Lord your God has driven them out before you, do not say to yourself, “The Lord has brought me here to take possession of this land because of my righteousness.” No, it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord is going to drive them out before you. I think there is a common belief that Israel was "given" the land beyond the Jordan because they were God's chosen people…

[flagged]

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#122

Post by lotsofpulp »

mc32 wrote: post #101
lotsofpulp wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of precedent for one tribe eliminating another tribe to gain land. The only way a conflict over land ends is if one side wins.

The problem is that until a few hundred years ago, you could stand your ground and either win or lose (happened a lot) or you sought uninhabited land elsewhere )or a weaker party to kick out) That also happened a lot. Back then borders were defined by what you could actively defend, though treaties also existed. These days though, there is no unclaimed land or unpopulated place to move in to. Practically speaking any…

> The problem is that until a few hundred years ago, you could stand your ground and either win or lose (happened a lot) or you sought uninhabited land elsewhere )or a weaker party to kick out) That also happened a lot. Back then borders were defined by what you could actively defend, though treaties also existed.

That is the same situation that exists today. Might makes right is the only rule of nature. Treaties are just hopes that someone will help with defending your borders.

See Russia expanding its borders into what was previously recognized as Ukraine.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#123

Post by ebiester »

alkyon wrote: post #87

In ideal world international peacekeeping forces would be deployed in Gaza. The peace and two state solution could only be enforced by imposing severe sanctions on Israel including possibility of aerial NATO strikes like in the former Yugoslavia.

This happened in the West Bank, not Gaza. But if you are talking about peacekeeping forces in Gaza, the West Bank, and Israel, I think there's a good argument for it.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#124

Post by mc32 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #122
mc32 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that until a few hundred years ago, you could stand your ground and either win or lose (happened a lot) or you sought uninhabited land elsewhere )or a weaker party to kick out) That also happened a lot. Back then borders were defined by what you could actively defend, though treaties also existed. These days though, there is no unclaimed land or unpopulated place to move in to. Practically speaking any…

> The problem is that until a few hundred years ago, you could stand your ground and either win or lose (happened a lot) or you sought uninhabited land elsewhere )or a weaker party to kick out) That also happened a lot. Back then borders were defined by what you could actively defend, though treaties also existed. That is the same situation that exists today. Might makes right is the only rule of nature. Treaties are…

Right. But before you could “run away” if you were willing to. Today you don’t have places to run to without running into other people willing to defend their places.

In the past you had lots and lots of peoples who just got erased as modern concepts of fairness and justice didn’t work the same way. See the warring states period.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#126

Post by southernplaces7 »

jojobas wrote: post #51
lifestyleguru wrote: post #15

Israel is the textbook example of proverbs "you become what you're fighting with" and "if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you".

If they were 10% as bad as their opposition Gaza would have been Arab-free for decades now.

Not sure why you were downvoted. Though it's a disgustingly poor excuse to say "at least we're not as bad as the Nazis" in justifying your own country's crimes against humanity, it also gives a bit of perspective when people do actually compare the modern Israeli state's violence with the savagery of the political system that provoked its formation.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#127

Post by cholantesh »

tiahura wrote: post #92
alkyon wrote: post #87

In ideal world international peacekeeping forces would be deployed in Gaza. The peace and two state solution could only be enforced by imposing severe sanctions on Israel including possibility of aerial NATO strikes like in the former Yugoslavia.

[flagged]

The US scaffolding the vast majority of the IDF's offensive apparatus, the EU pumping 70 billion € into its economy, multiple ICC warrants, an open ICJ case, multiple G7 states weighing in on the question of Palestinian statehood, and Yemeni, Lebanese, and Iranian military cooperation are all rather odd shows of indifference.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#128

Post by lotsofpulp »

mc32 wrote: post #124
lotsofpulp wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that until a few hundred years ago, you could stand your ground and either win or lose (happened a lot) or you sought uninhabited land elsewhere )or a weaker party to kick out) That also happened a lot. Back then borders were defined by what you could actively defend, though treaties also existed. That is the same situation that exists today. Might makes right is the only rule of nature. Treaties are…

Right. But before you could “run away” if you were willing to. Today you don’t have places to run to without running into other people willing to defend their places. In the past you had lots and lots of peoples who just got erased as modern concepts of fairness and justice didn’t work the same way. See the warring states period.

Maybe. I don’t know that there was a place to run to a few hundred years ago. That was when Native Americans were pushed out (in North and South), Aborigines in Australia, etc.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#129

Post by wds »

hersko wrote: post #125
wds wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the entirety of history began on October 7th, 2023, this is true.

Go back further and it is more of the same. They fight and lose. Rinse and repeat.

Yes, I am aware of the Nakba, and how Palestinians fight to keep their land and lose.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#130

Post by Workaccount2 »

wds wrote: post #119
tiahura wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Assuming the entirety of history began on October 7th, 2023, this is true.

For most of the kids falling over themselves in this conflict, history between the two nations began October 8th 2023.

For the adults that run the world and been around 50+ years watching this shit, they just want it to be over, and don't really care who wins. At this point Palestine has no cards left and no friends helping them. They have lost, and the adults want them to go away without human-shielding themselves to dust.

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