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What would an efficient and trustworthy meeting culture look like?

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Re: What would an efficient and trustworthy meeting culture look like?

#121

Post by fn-mote »

9rx wrote: post #119
9dev wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for your boss, but I definitely am sometimes a few abstraction layers further up in concepts than the ICs on the team, and it's a lot more frustrating to realise the others don't really know what I'm getting at because I didn't create clear enough goals than getting that feedback right away. People in leadership usually get there because they value time and efficiency, and if you don't spin that as "your…

> it's a lot more frustrating to realise the others don't really know what I'm getting at I understand why it may initially seem frustrating to realize that you are not offering value to the team, but us ICs are used to recognizing that and quickly cutting you out of the picture. It is no big deal in the grand scheme of things. Don't worry.

That’s a super cynical reply to a manager (engineering head) who said they would prefer people to tell them in the meeting what’s going wrong.

I would certainly be glad to have someone like that over my division.

Re: What would an efficient and trustworthy meeting culture look like?

#123

Post by 9rx »

fn-mote wrote: post #121
9rx wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a lot more frustrating to realise the others don't really know what I'm getting at I understand why it may initially seem frustrating to realize that you are not offering value to the team, but us ICs are used to recognizing that and quickly cutting you out of the picture. It is no big deal in the grand scheme of things. Don't worry.

That’s a super cynical reply to a manager (engineering head) who said they would prefer people to tell them in the meeting what’s going wrong. I would certainly be glad to have someone like that over my division.

What is cynical about reassuring a leader that they aren't needed?

You've failed as a leader if you find yourself being needed.

Re: What would an efficient and trustworthy meeting culture look like?

#124

Post by anotherevan »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #66
pjc50 wrote: post #23

Agenda + minutes, in however minimal a form, is crucial. A meeting with no minutes and no agenda and a warm drink is just a tea party. Not that that doesn't have a role in organizations, but it shouldn't dominate your time. Most standups are therefore tea parties. A previous boss of mine even used to bring biscuits, which was nice. It serves the role of reminding everyone that each other exists and are collaborating…

>> "meeting without biscuits" I like that (biscuits not the idea of being reprimanded), A former co-worker used to respond in a friendly (but he meant it!) way "no agenda; no attenda"

"Very telling that English has a term for silly roles like 'stock broker' but not for important roles like 'casually brings homemade scones to every meeting'."

/src https://aus.social/@coolandnormal/109957560234997684

Re: What would an efficient and trustworthy meeting culture look like?

#125

Post by camel_gopher »

throw-qqqqq wrote: post #72
duxup wrote: post #64

>agenda I once worked at a company that had something like 3 to 5k employees. Everyone had to take an online class (about 8 hours) about effective meetings. Rule 1 was to have an agenda available in the meeting invite. I loved this, it made for FAR more productive meetings. Nobody at the company that I knew of outside myself and one other person had agendas available for our meetings, including leadership. I think se…

I’m in a company of +6k. > Rule 1 was to have an agenda available in the meeting invite Same rule here, but enforced. We are allowed (and encouraged) to cancel or decline invitations without an agenda here. In my experience, it makes a big positive difference, when people have to justify why they need someone’s time and provide a rough frame for the discussion. Much more focused, much more efficient. Fewer meeting wh…

No agenda, no attenda

Re: What would an efficient and trustworthy meeting culture look like?

#126

Post by lawlorino »

taherchhabra wrote: post #5

At my ex employer, every employee had an hourly rate in the system, I had thought of pulling the rates from the internal system into Microsoft teams, to display the cost of every meeting.

I like this. To add: It serves as a strict lower bound, since it doesn’t account for the hidden cost of context switching etc.

Re: What would an efficient and trustworthy meeting culture look like?

#127

Post by theshrike79 »

throw-qqqqq wrote: post #72
duxup wrote: post #64

>agenda I once worked at a company that had something like 3 to 5k employees. Everyone had to take an online class (about 8 hours) about effective meetings. Rule 1 was to have an agenda available in the meeting invite. I loved this, it made for FAR more productive meetings. Nobody at the company that I knew of outside myself and one other person had agendas available for our meetings, including leadership. I think se…

I’m in a company of +6k. > Rule 1 was to have an agenda available in the meeting invite Same rule here, but enforced. We are allowed (and encouraged) to cancel or decline invitations without an agenda here. In my experience, it makes a big positive difference, when people have to justify why they need someone’s time and provide a rough frame for the discussion. Much more focused, much more efficient. Fewer meeting wh…

My record for an useless meeting was when the Lead Architect called an all-hands R&D meeting (40-50 people) for the whole morning (0800->1200)

It was him reading tickets off Jira and editing them and randomly asking people about clarifications.

I was a consultant at the time, billing around 100€/hour and there were others along with their own people. That meeting was a) completely useless for 95% of the people there and b) cost about 15k€ easily.

Re: What would an efficient and trustworthy meeting culture look like?

#128

Post by theshrike79 »

alach11 wrote: post #97
duxup wrote: post #64

>agenda I once worked at a company that had something like 3 to 5k employees. Everyone had to take an online class (about 8 hours) about effective meetings. Rule 1 was to have an agenda available in the meeting invite. I loved this, it made for FAR more productive meetings. Nobody at the company that I knew of outside myself and one other person had agendas available for our meetings, including leadership. I think se…

> Everyone had to take an online class (about 8 hours) about effective meetings As soon as I read this line I grimaced. This is a clear sign of an organization that doesn't respect peoples' time. The class should be an email (and proper follow-up by the management chain) establishing three rules: - Meetings must have an agenda - After a meeting, there must be a follow-up email describing what was decided and any acti…

The point of mandatory classes isn't about respecting time or being efficient.

It's there to make 100% clear that you can't say "I didn't know" when you do something that was explicitly explained in the online class.

So now if a new middle-manager has an agendaless meeting, nobody shows up and they throw a massive fit - people can point at the class and say "It's company policy, deal with it"

Re: What would an efficient and trustworthy meeting culture look like?

#129

Post by theshrike79 »

keiferski wrote: post #10

First, a meeting is primarily not a way to spread knowledge. Knowledge should be spread in a format that is more resilient to time than our memories (which are surprisingly untrustworthy over even tiny time scales). For example; written text. The greatest benefit of text is that it can be asynchronously consumed, multiple times. Meetings are primarily for two things: I think this makes sense in the abstract but not a…

Then you can combine it with a meeting.

1) send knowledge to people who need to know it, tell them there's gonna be a Q&A meeting about it in X days.

2) have said meeting.

Re: What would an efficient and trustworthy meeting culture look like?

#130

Post by 9dev »

9rx wrote: post #119
9dev wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for your boss, but I definitely am sometimes a few abstraction layers further up in concepts than the ICs on the team, and it's a lot more frustrating to realise the others don't really know what I'm getting at because I didn't create clear enough goals than getting that feedback right away. People in leadership usually get there because they value time and efficiency, and if you don't spin that as "your…

> it's a lot more frustrating to realise the others don't really know what I'm getting at I understand why it may initially seem frustrating to realize that you are not offering value to the team, but us ICs are used to recognizing that and quickly cutting you out of the picture. It is no big deal in the grand scheme of things. Don't worry.

I'm not sure I understand your point. It's not like I do a poetry slam session in meetings, but work on the technical direction we're moving toward. I'm less worried about offering value than people not getting the information they need to do their job?
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