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Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

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Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#121

Post by tokai »

mft_ wrote: post #119
tokai wrote: post #112

Motordoping does not exist. There has not been a single case at top professional level even though they have looked for the motors for over a decade. But journalists, bloggers, and youtubers love to bring it up as a exciting story they don't need to do any work to write. Also old men like Greg LeMond uses it to stay relevant even though he knows nothing about motors nor modern cycling.

> Motordoping does not exist. It does exist : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femke_Van_den_Driessche Aside from allegations about Cancellara (basically that his seated attack was too strong, plus he 'moved his hand suspiciously' just before) I always struggled to find an alternate explanantion for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ideiS-6gBAc > There has not been a single case at top professional level even though…

This is the thing that's always brought up. That female junior cyclocross racer (its a different sport bub) and one attack that fans didn't like.

People like you keep going with these two, even though they mean nothing. And then the conspiracy shit. The motodoping topic is closer related to pizzagate than it is road racing.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#122

Post by tokai »

jamesblonde wrote: post #79

Fabian Cancellera was widely suspected of mechanical doping in Paris Roubaix in 2010 (possibly also the tour of Flanders that year). Since then, however, they x-ray bikes for motors. More importantly, riders aren't switching bikes they way they used to. Greg LeMond claimed Chris Froome used on in the TDF. References: https://www.bennionkearny.com/the-hidden-motor-mechanical-do... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgbvu…

Greg LeMond has been on a whole motodoping tour online recently to stay relevant. He clearly does not understand modern cycling and he has a ton of people he wants to put down for the sake of his own reputation.

There is not reason to believe him more than a crazy uncle.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#123

Post by blueflow »

tokai wrote: post #121
mft_ wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Motordoping does not exist. It does exist : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femke_Van_den_Driessche Aside from allegations about Cancellara (basically that his seated attack was too strong, plus he 'moved his hand suspiciously' just before) I always struggled to find an alternate explanantion for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ideiS-6gBAc > There has not been a single case at top professional level even though…

This is the thing that's always brought up. That female junior cyclocross racer (its a different sport bub) and one attack that fans didn't like. People like you keep going with these two, even though they mean nothing. And then the conspiracy shit. The motodoping topic is closer related to pizzagate than it is road racing.

What does Istvan Varjas do for a living?

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#124

Post by [deleted] »

mkesper wrote: post #99
h11h wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way of thinking about it is how much a sport is skill-based versus fitness-based. Team sports and racquet sports tend to rely more on skill. Cycling and track and field rely more on fitness. A good soccer player isn't going to become a great just by getting a bit fitter, but the advantage given by doping is exactly what it means to be a better cyclist. This doesn't explain why cycling seems to attract more doping…

Soccer very much depends on fitness too.

[deleted]

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#125

Post by KingOfCoders »

this_user wrote: post #118

Betteridge's law. There have been suspicions about this for about 15 years. Yet, in that entire time, not a single road cyclist in a UCI competition has ever been found to be doing this. Even just from a practical POV, it makes little sense. Stock road frames do not have room to even mount such a motor. You would also need a sufficiently large battery somewhere on the bike that can deliver enough power to make an imp…

Not saying anyone does this, but my bottle holder has two screws that could easily act as contacts - no wires needed.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#126

Post by stefs »

gwelson wrote: post #16

I am definitely a layperson when it comes to organized sports, but from my POV it seems like competitive cycling attracts WAY more fraud/cheating/doping/etc. than many other kinds of sports. At least I have heard about it a lot more. I wonder why that is.

i think that cycling is cleaner than other sports today. the past doping epidemics led to so much bad press cycling faced a huge sponsorship crisis. if another one of the stars would get caught today they'd take the whole sport down with them.

so, if they don't cheat as much, what's left? todays cyclists are actually a lot better than the stars of yesterday, mostly due to better nutrition. training efficiency also improved as the young stars of today are of the first generation that grew up with power meters.

i'm not very knowledgeable in the sport and my last point is a bit of an assumption, but here we go: pro cycling is mostly based in europe. the UAE team is swiss, astana qazaqstan team (a team representing the state kazakhstan) trains in spain and austria. girona (spain, near the pyrinees) is _the_ classic cycling hotspot. this means testing by officials is comparatively easy.

in other sports the training facilities are, for example, in the chinese mountains, russian provinces or in the iranian back country. getting regular testing there is hard. so imo no: cycling today is probably less dirty than most others sports.

tbh i think pogacar is just one of those rare genetic talents that show up from time to time to dominate a sport, but is doubted more than others due to cyclings tainted history. it may be possible he uses newly developed drugs that are undetectable, but i'd say innocent until proven guilty is still applicable here.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#127

Post by koolba »

lonelyasacloud wrote: post #100
ekianjo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> drugs are not used much they just switched to drugs you cant easily detect.

For the prestigious pro events samples are kept for years afterwards and are subject to re-testing at any time as science advances. If any of those re-tests fails (or if cheating comes to light through any other means) the rider would be dq'd, stripped of the result, and be liable to pay back prize any and sponsorship money. These are riders in their twenties, that's such a long time to rely on getting away with it I…

> For the prestigious pro events samples are kept for years afterwards and are subject to re-testing at any time as science advances.

That’s easy to solve. Use some of the prize money to stage an elaborate heist of the blood sample and replace it with a clean sample.

I bet this would make a good movie. Could be called “Blood Spoke”.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#128

Post by sho_hn »

tokai wrote: post #121
mft_ wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Motordoping does not exist. It does exist : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femke_Van_den_Driessche Aside from allegations about Cancellara (basically that his seated attack was too strong, plus he 'moved his hand suspiciously' just before) I always struggled to find an alternate explanantion for this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ideiS-6gBAc > There has not been a single case at top professional level even though…

This is the thing that's always brought up. That female junior cyclocross racer (its a different sport bub) and one attack that fans didn't like. People like you keep going with these two, even though they mean nothing. And then the conspiracy shit. The motodoping topic is closer related to pizzagate than it is road racing.

I have no stake or set opinion in this debate.

But your parent poster posted an interesting-looking video, and you responded with "it means nothing" without any explanation. Care to explain?

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#129

Post by defrost »

koolba wrote: post #127
lonelyasacloud wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the prestigious pro events samples are kept for years afterwards and are subject to re-testing at any time as science advances. If any of those re-tests fails (or if cheating comes to light through any other means) the rider would be dq'd, stripped of the result, and be liable to pay back prize any and sponsorship money. These are riders in their twenties, that's such a long time to rely on getting away with it I…

> For the prestigious pro events samples are kept for years afterwards and are subject to re-testing at any time as science advances. That’s easy to solve. Use some of the prize money to stage an elaborate heist of the blood sample and replace it with a clean sample. I bet this would make a good movie. Could be called “Blood Spoke”.

Their Wheel Be Blood by the Traffic Cone Brothers.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#130

Post by swores »

f4c39012 wrote: post #104
ekianjo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> drugs are not used much they just switched to drugs you cant easily detect.

"just"

That word can mean several different things. In their sentence "just" means "only", as in "only switched, not stopped", it doesn't mean it was simple which is presumably what you are replying assuming it meant.
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