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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#121

Post by sugarplant »

jeffbee wrote: post #16
tshaddox wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IMHO there’s no reason to conceal carry if you’re going to do it without a round chambered. Why is that your opinion? Surely there's a wide variety of plausible scenarios where carrying a concealed weapon without a round chambered is much better than not carrying a concealed weapon.

[flagged]

there are hundreds upon hundreds of videos online of self defense shootings, including some where the victim draws second and successfully defends against a shooter. a lot of them happen in brazil too. coming to a thread about guns to state a ridiculous opinion about conceal carry strikes me as something someone mentally ill would do.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#122

Post by kgermino »

giantg2 wrote: post #112
kgermino wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May be my age, but I wouldn't say any of those brands are a mark of quality. Rather the opposite in fact. They are all interesting in their own way (especially Tesla), but certainly not quality/reliability-first organizations.

Is any mass produced car made by a quality first org? I'm sure we can dig in and find examples. Someone brought up Toyota and Japanese cars. How about the unintended acceleration issue and the frag airbags?

I don’t know where we’d draw the line for “quality first” but I’d argue Toyota at minimum qualifies

That doesn’t mean they’re perfect: cars are incredibly complex machines and mistakes are inevitable. But the airbag issue was a vendor (used by many companies) and IIRC the acceleration issue wasn’t that much bigger in Toyotas than other makes

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#123

Post by paradox460 »

TheAmazingRace wrote: post #17

It's crazy how the P320 has such a bad reputation, while the P365, a 9mm micro-pistol by Sig Sauer, is a phenomenal piece of kit by comparison. I purchased mine in 2018 and it's seen thousands of rounds put through it with zero issues encountered.

I got my wife the 365SAS, and liked it enough to get one for myself. It's so good for CC, and holds reasonable accuracy out to 15 yrds

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#124

Post by giantg2 »

kgermino wrote: post #122
giantg2 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is any mass produced car made by a quality first org? I'm sure we can dig in and find examples. Someone brought up Toyota and Japanese cars. How about the unintended acceleration issue and the frag airbags?

I don’t know where we’d draw the line for “quality first” but I’d argue Toyota at minimum qualifies That doesn’t mean they’re perfect: cars are incredibly complex machines and mistakes are inevitable. But the airbag issue was a vendor (used by many companies) and IIRC the acceleration issue wasn’t that much bigger in Toyotas than other makes

There were no reports of the unintentional acceleration in other makes.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#125

Post by JKCalhoun »

rascul wrote: post #63
Filmatic wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2.8% is even worse than I’d have guessed. 2.8% of an already rare event is technically non-imaginary, but also definitely rounds down to imaginary. [edit] on top of that, is it even a one-digit percentage of that 2.8% of a rare event in which having a round chambered made any difference? Yet there are people confidently posting as if it’d be absurd to carry without a round chambered. That’s plainly nuts.

That's only active shooter events. There are other cases where armed civilians have stopped a crime. I don't have such data readily available, though.

Only an anecdote here: a guy I know claimed to have "defensively" used his gun. When I pressed him, it turned out that he drew his gun on a guy "that looked like a dirtbag" when he was staying at a motel.

From his point of view his life would have been threatened (he might not be alive today!) had he not presented his firearm.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#126

Post by JKCalhoun »

giantg2 wrote: post #72
Filmatic wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military personnel generally can’t carry at all on post/base without a specific need. Nor keep private firearms at home, if on base/post housing. This policy should tell you something about the actual cost/benefit of private arms as far as overall safety goes. Cuts through the noise and hypotheticals rather nicely.

"This policy should tell you something about the actual cost/benefit of private arms as far as overall safety goes. Cuts through the noise and hypotheticals rather nicely." Yes, most people will feel quite safe in a secured facility with controlled access, simialar to court houses. Imagine living in a place where everyone has been vetted and the perimeter is secured with armed guards.

Or living in a country like Japan.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#127

Post by paulddraper »

jleyank wrote: post #2

This seems to suggest carrying with a chambered round. Is this prudent without an external threat? They can drop the thing, or some kind of impact can yield a “design problem”. Can’t they just chamber when there’s a need?

Answer: maybe.

Depends how responsive you want to be.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#128

Post by 83 »

unethical_ban wrote: post #89
hollywood_court wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. It seems that Sig really dropped the ball with the P320. My top 3 most used hand guns are the CZ P-10 F, the Sig P365, and the Sig P322. I honestly never thought I'd ever buy a modern handgun unless it was made by Sig. Until I tried the CZ. The P-10 F is my favorite full sized striker fired pistol. And that's coming from a guy that owns 30+ Sig pistols.

Yeah, just from a reputational standpoint I'm not sure I ever want to buy a Sig unless it's used. Too many other good brands to financially support. I've been eyeing a Canik or Walther, I want a premium trigger. The CZs are reliable weapons, but their trigger feels "gritty" to me. My Sig SP2022 is my favorite trigger of the guns I own.

Fwiw, I love my PPQ Q5 Match.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#130

Post by kgermino »

giantg2 wrote: post #124
kgermino wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know where we’d draw the line for “quality first” but I’d argue Toyota at minimum qualifies That doesn’t mean they’re perfect: cars are incredibly complex machines and mistakes are inevitable. But the airbag issue was a vendor (used by many companies) and IIRC the acceleration issue wasn’t that much bigger in Toyotas than other makes

There were no reports of the unintentional acceleration in other makes.

What? Unintended acceleration happens _all the time_. It’s usually driver error or a stuck floor mat. The vast majority are drivers who hit the accelerator thinking it’s the brakes then panic when the car speeds up. Toyota had some design issues that seemed to make it more likely (though the software was found to be fine) and got attention due to a viral 911 call and a poor response.

They were absolutely not the only make with unintentional accretion reports/issues at that time; nor presumably today, but I haven’t seen recent numbers

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