Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers • Hacker News Board

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#121

Post by dgfitz » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 1:06 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #112

dgfitz wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This point always amuses me. Thats like, 1 starbucks coffee a month, or 1 trip to a fast food place a month, or one extra thing at the grocery store a month, or half a movie ticket a month, or half a streaming service a month, or less than half an LLM subscription a month, I could go on for a while. For the cost, preventing cancer seems like it's a wise investment. I say this as a cancer survivor.

But it doesn’t prevent cancer. It lowers the risk of a specific kind of cancer by some amount. Is it $650 worth? That’s what I’m stuck on. People just go by vibe and say things like “it’s a good investment” but that’s just coming from I don’t know where.

I'm just saying, I'm happy to pay for our system at the cost of seven whole dollars in energy cost per month, for my spouse and kids if nothing else.

If in 20 years I find out I got ripped off, I won't really be upset about it.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#122

Post by prawn » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 1:09 AM UTC

nancyminusone wrote: post #16

Every time you look up something related to Radon, it's always cited as "the second leading cause of lung cancer after smoking" I wonder if that's really true. Radon is a big deal where I live. Most homes have a radon mitigation system which is a 20-watt fan that goes over your sump pump hole, and runs continuously to a vent on the roof.

I have never heard of radon as a domestic health concern (40+, have owned multiple houses). Does this vary by country or relate to mitigation industries in a locale?

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#123

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 1:10 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #94

irrational wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$5000? I got a bunch of quotes and none came anywhere near that high and I live in a home that made it difficult to install the system (finished basement, large footprint, three stories tall, concrete outer walls (ICF), etc. I think the highest was $3,000 and the lowest $1,600. I ended up installing it myself for about $500 in materials.

It’ll vary considerably. But I just picked a random round number that doesn’t affect the point I’m sharing.

[deleted]

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#124

Post by ok_computer » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 1:12 AM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #86

irrational wrote: post #80

The second leading cause of lung cancer is radon. My high schooler came home and said her science teacher said everyone should do a radon test. I scoffed, but humored her by getting a kit from Home Depot and sending it away to a lab. The results came back very high. So I purchased an electronic radon monitor and it showed almost the exact same results. Well, crap. I installed a radon mitigation system and now the num…

The difficult thing for me is that while I believe radon can cause lung cancer, I think products are often sold based on fear. “Second leading cause” doesn’t really mean anything in isolation, does it? What slice of my mortality pie was radon before and after spending $5000? Could I spend $5000 to cut a bigger slice out of it in another way, like eating better or hiring a grizzly bear to make me exercise more often?…

Radon fan drawing from two basement surfaces (concrete slab crawlspace addition and original stone foundation with cement floor): $1,200.00 usd in 2020 with warrantied fan and included confirmation test kit. US mid Atlantic. The prior homeowner thought radon was a scam too. It doesn’t make sense as a scam for a one-time capital and labor purchase.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#125

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 1:14 AM UTC

jychang wrote: post #115

zamadatix wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For 93% of people the only cost is the $15 test kit to verify "yep, don't need to even think about it". For the other 7% that then need to really do a cost-benefit the data is out there but you do need to go through your specific circumstances to get a meaningful number. The risk levels vary vastly (orders of magnitudes) between both the radon level and your life choices/situation, so it's relatively meaningless to s…

Yeah, this is the correct heuristic. Spend $15 or $100 for one or two measurements, *then* worry about cost to mitigate.

Advice also applies to mold. A lot of people worry about mold in their house. It's actually quite straightforward to determine if this is actually a problem: Home Depot sells "test kits" for a few bucks that are essentially petri dishes. Buy two of these, put one inside where you are worried and then the other outside and wait 3-4 days. If they look radically different, then send the inside one in for actual analysis, which is an additional ~$40 USD. Then and only then do you need to action and by that point you know exactly what the problem is so you don't have to pay some "expert" to sell you some massively expensive mitigation strategy that you probably don't need.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#126

Post by WorkerBee28474 » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 1:20 AM UTC

prawn wrote: post #122

nancyminusone wrote: post #16

Every time you look up something related to Radon, it's always cited as "the second leading cause of lung cancer after smoking" I wonder if that's really true. Radon is a big deal where I live. Most homes have a radon mitigation system which is a 20-watt fan that goes over your sump pump hole, and runs continuously to a vent on the roof.

I have never heard of radon as a domestic health concern (40+, have owned multiple houses). Does this vary by country or relate to mitigation industries in a locale?

It varies by the amount of uranium underneath you. So yes, by country/state/province/etc.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#127

Post by daemonologist » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 1:22 AM UTC

prawn wrote: post #122

nancyminusone wrote: post #16

Every time you look up something related to Radon, it's always cited as "the second leading cause of lung cancer after smoking" I wonder if that's really true. Radon is a big deal where I live. Most homes have a radon mitigation system which is a 20-watt fan that goes over your sump pump hole, and runs continuously to a vent on the roof.

I have never heard of radon as a domestic health concern (40+, have owned multiple houses). Does this vary by country or relate to mitigation industries in a locale?

It varies with geology yes, produced by the radioactive decay chains of U-238 and Th-232.

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2408084121

If I recall correctly it can accumulate more readily in basements, so that's another factor. The house I grew up in had an exhaust system installed due to elevated radon levels.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#128

Post by cosmic_cheese » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 1:25 AM UTC

QuercusMax wrote: post #29

doubled112 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really like our station wagon. Well, in principle at least. We won't get into the details of keeping a 12 year old German car going. It's fuel efficient. It's not big. It's a decent people mover. It has more cargo space than many SUVs that are larger. Is low enough the roof racks are easily accessible. Added a hitch, mostly for more cargo space. I'm starting to wonder if I've done more "truck things" than many of…

When I had a Honda Fit I hauled a TON of cargo in it. A friend borrowed it to pick up a full-sized pinball machine from the next state over. I moved half of a 5-bedroom house (except for big furniture) across town in my Fit. You don't need a gigantic beast. A kei truck is more than adequate for the vast majority of what people use pickup trucks for.

Fits are pretty famous for their TARDIS-like nature. It’s a shame they’re not sold in the US any more.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#129

Post by prawn » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 1:28 AM UTC

WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #126

prawn wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never heard of radon as a domestic health concern (40+, have owned multiple houses). Does this vary by country or relate to mitigation industries in a locale?

It varies by the amount of uranium underneath you. So yes, by country/state/province/etc.

Australia has the largest uranium reserves, but I've never heard radon mentioned here as a concern, so I assume it just comes down to the reserves being very specifically located.

Re: Many lung cancers are now in nonsmokers

#130

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Wed, Jul 23, 2025, 1:33 AM UTC

maxbond wrote: post #116

zamadatix wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that depends how old you are when you install it and how long you plan to live but ~$7 per month is not at all an unrealistic electricity usage estimate for the system. 7*12*35 = $2,940. Edit: E.g. the numbers from this site suggest, for 15 out of the 16 listed fan models, the lifetime electricity cost is likely to be significantly larger than the install cost unless you are already much older at the time you…

The present value of $7 in 35 years is $1.45, assuming a risk free rate of 4.5%. Paying $2940 over 35 years is much more affordable than paying $2940 up front. If the goal is to be rational about risk, let's right-size the numbers. Otherwise our figures will be misleading.

You're not going to spend a fixed price over time. You're going to consume a fixed amount of energy and pay an increasing rate as the dollar inflates.