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What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

lumafield.com

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Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#121

Post by yegle »

godelski wrote: post #76

First off, I love Luma Field. Always incredible to see what's going on inside things. Even just fun to scroll through their Twitter. Second, Anker is one of the few companies I actually have a very high trust for. A few years back I bought a wall charger[0] from them, it has 2 USB-C and a Type A. A month in, one of the Type-C ports wouldn't charge if the other port was being used. If you send a support ticket they an…

FWIW, I think their charger has some built-in protection that will disable a port under certain condition as a prevention (I forgot the details).

If you try their provided troubleshooting instructions, your port may return normal again. Worth give it a try.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#122

Post by makeitdouble »

Zak wrote: post #47
turnsout wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%... I'm seeking products that take AA or AAA batteries instead of built-in lithium batteries, for the same reason.

I wish more devices took field-replaceable cylindrical Li-ion cells. They're pretty common in flashlights and rare in other products where they would be advantageous.

There's a flurry of battery holders that accept 21700 cells, but the power delivery is just too weak IMHO.

From memory, the max output was about 20~30W for the bigger models [0]. For 2 cell types it gives 10W, so barely good enough to slowly charge a smartphone.

https://www.amazon.co.jp/PLCPDM/dp/B0DFPKXQZ1

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#123

Post by RicoElectrico »

maxglute wrote: post #80
nomel wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in manufacturing in the US. Incoming quality control, for Chinese vendors, is necessarily set up with zero-trust. This isn't a "trust but verify" sort of thing, it's strictly "do not trust". Assume that, at every step of the chain, there will be a lie: change of process, material change, collected data, and that the product being given to you is even yours (delivering a knockoff at the final step, and resellin…

>Chabuduo mindset [1] is a very real thing IMO high tech cost optimization is like the opposite of chabuduo - it's not half-assing, but over value engineer under pressure. The PRC's "amazing" manufacturing system fosters adversarial competition down the supply chain because there are so many competitors, packed with technical talent incentivized to value-engineer the shit out of everything to squeeze out fractions of…

If you ever watched BigClive, the Chinese often make mistakes that can't be explained by cost optimization.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#124

Post by lotsofpulp »

bboygravity wrote: post #119
phil21 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Anything I get from China, even from a vendor I have done lots of business with in the past gets at minimum random samples inspected and tested when appropriate. Every single shipment, zero exceptions before use. So many things are caught. At best there is a lack of QA on the Chinese side, but it's definitely worse than that. They have no qualms sending you known-bad items, and just see it as "maybe the customer…

I don't get how it's possible that nobody (other than Tesla) can manufacture batteries in the West? It a glance this feels insane. Batteries are in everything and such a basic need. How is it possible that buying through known scammers with tons of QA is still cheaper than manufacturing in the West? Obviously for Tesla it isn't cheaper to buy from China, so why is it thought to be cheaper for the rest of the West? Is…

Presumably some combination of higher labor and environmental costs.

It is remarkable that Tesla was able to figure it out.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#125

Post by lazide »

bboygravity wrote: post #119
phil21 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Anything I get from China, even from a vendor I have done lots of business with in the past gets at minimum random samples inspected and tested when appropriate. Every single shipment, zero exceptions before use. So many things are caught. At best there is a lack of QA on the Chinese side, but it's definitely worse than that. They have no qualms sending you known-bad items, and just see it as "maybe the customer…

I don't get how it's possible that nobody (other than Tesla) can manufacture batteries in the West? It a glance this feels insane. Batteries are in everything and such a basic need. How is it possible that buying through known scammers with tons of QA is still cheaper than manufacturing in the West? Obviously for Tesla it isn't cheaper to buy from China, so why is it thought to be cheaper for the rest of the West? Is…

The West is an order of magnitude (or more) more expensive, that’s why.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#126

Post by thimabi »

bboygravity wrote: post #119
phil21 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. Anything I get from China, even from a vendor I have done lots of business with in the past gets at minimum random samples inspected and tested when appropriate. Every single shipment, zero exceptions before use. So many things are caught. At best there is a lack of QA on the Chinese side, but it's definitely worse than that. They have no qualms sending you known-bad items, and just see it as "maybe the customer…

I don't get how it's possible that nobody (other than Tesla) can manufacture batteries in the West? It a glance this feels insane. Batteries are in everything and such a basic need. How is it possible that buying through known scammers with tons of QA is still cheaper than manufacturing in the West? Obviously for Tesla it isn't cheaper to buy from China, so why is it thought to be cheaper for the rest of the West? Is…

Maybe Tesla’s batteries have some sort of competitive advantage that Elon et al. don’t want to risk leaking to the rest of the world?

(no idea if that’s the case, I have no specialized knowledge about batteries, just venturing a guess)

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#127

Post by lazide »

RicoElectrico wrote: post #123
maxglute wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Chabuduo mindset [1] is a very real thing IMO high tech cost optimization is like the opposite of chabuduo - it's not half-assing, but over value engineer under pressure. The PRC's "amazing" manufacturing system fosters adversarial competition down the supply chain because there are so many competitors, packed with technical talent incentivized to value-engineer the shit out of everything to squeeze out fractions of…

If you ever watched BigClive, the Chinese often make mistakes that can't be explained by cost optimization.

It certainly can be explained by some variant of fraud though.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#128

Post by gosub100 »

devmor wrote: post #106
gosub100 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scary thing is you can't put the fire out with water. Your only option is to run.

> Your only option is to run. That is not true. Please don't spread misinformation that could lead to deaths or people losing everything they own. You can put out a Lithium battery fire with a class-D fire extinguisher. If you don't have one available, you can isolate the burning battery by surrounding it with sand or other inert, dry substances to keep it from spreading until the fire department arrives with proper…

You forgot having a fume hood, or halon foam system. Or just a silver heat resistant suit and SCBA. Please don't hold back on the pedantry and "you can"s. People might miss these valuable options and not know they can just coexist with the lithium fire right next door!

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#129

Post by bfung »

maxglute wrote: post #80
nomel wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in manufacturing in the US. Incoming quality control, for Chinese vendors, is necessarily set up with zero-trust. This isn't a "trust but verify" sort of thing, it's strictly "do not trust". Assume that, at every step of the chain, there will be a lie: change of process, material change, collected data, and that the product being given to you is even yours (delivering a knockoff at the final step, and resellin…

>Chabuduo mindset [1] is a very real thing IMO high tech cost optimization is like the opposite of chabuduo - it's not half-assing, but over value engineer under pressure. The PRC's "amazing" manufacturing system fosters adversarial competition down the supply chain because there are so many competitors, packed with technical talent incentivized to value-engineer the shit out of everything to squeeze out fractions of…

^^^ is closer to the truth for the swap out; eek out those margins.

Culturally, chabuduo is more of an excuse/greed of the lazy to convince you it’s close enough [that it won’t make a difference to you] and they’re too lazy or out of patience, for many reasons they also don’t want to explain to you.

Re: What went wrong inside recalled Anker PowerCore 10000 power banks?

#130

Post by ryukafalz »

Zak wrote: post #47
turnsout wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%... I'm seeking products that take AA or AAA batteries instead of built-in lithium batteries, for the same reason.

I wish more devices took field-replaceable cylindrical Li-ion cells. They're pretty common in flashlights and rare in other products where they would be advantageous.

I agree, but specifically LFP cells rather then NMC. Less likely to get angry. (My laptop uses these and I appreciate it all the time.)
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