UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US • Hacker News Board

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#121

Post by terminalshort » Mon, Jul 21, 2025, 5:14 PM UTC

wkat4242 wrote: post #57

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just seems very unrealistic wishful thinking that Europe would suddenly become good at these kinds of software after spending the last few decades being bad at it.

It's a lot easier now because there's a huge demand all of a sudden for local services. Previously it was hard to compete with the US because the lack of regulation there and investors in the EU having more expectations rather than just throwing money at the wall and hoping it sticks. But with the exploitative business models like Google's consumer tracking and now with Trump and his trade wars the US is no longer vi…

You think that the EU, which is also pushing for a backdoor just like the UK, is somehow actually against tracking and data collection? You gotta pick one or the other.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#122

Post by Silhouette » Mon, Jul 21, 2025, 5:16 PM UTC

eamonnsullivan wrote: post #96

DrBazza wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, UK Parliament is made up of political careerists and art students, which is probably similar to most Western democracies. There's a saying 'those who can do, those who can't teach', it probably needs a final 'and those that can't teach, go into politics'. Every time ukgov tries to make some sort of tech policy, it's embarassingly wrong, or naive, or both. This comes from a country that effectively gave away AR…

I'm a principal software engineer with a degree in history. You don't need a science degree to understand most of these issues sufficiently to legislate them. But you need humility and a willingness to learn. That, sadly, is lacking in too many governments and civil services. Also, the people pushing for these measure (e.g., the U.K's equivalent of the NSA, GCHQ and most national-level police departments) understand…

Also, the people pushing for these measure (e.g., the U.K's equivalent of the NSA, GCHQ and most national-level police departments) understand these issues perfectly well.

Surely some of them understand the technical details. That doesn't necessarily mean they understand or respect the wider implications of a policy. This is why it's important to have a government that sets policy - taking into account all of the competing influences and potential consequences - and politically neutral technicians who then implement government policy.

No-one would dispute that if the government could examine every communication everyone ever sends then it could catch more very bad people and prevent more harm to innocent people. The problem is all the other stuff that also happens if you give a government that kind of power over its own people.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#123

Post by thaumasiotes » Mon, Jul 21, 2025, 5:16 PM UTC

standardUser wrote: post #60

petre wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure the police can catch child abusers the old fashioned way: by infiltrating cp networks and posing as kids online. This snooper's charter is in fact overreach and an invitation to build something like the Stasi.

If devoted half the resources to catching child abusers as we do to stop people from getting high after work, we'd have a whole hell of a lot fewer abused children. But, priorities!

> If devoted half the resources to catching child abusers as we do to stop people from getting high after work, we'd have a whole hell of a lot fewer abused children.

There are two problems here:

(1) We devote more resources to catching child abusers. There are all kinds of legal "if you see something, say something" requirements that make every doctor, nurse, and schoolteacher in the country part of the effort to do this.

(2) I see no particular reason to believe that additional resources would lead to a noticeable increase in detections. There are many, many circumstances where you're free to devote double the resources to something, but you'll see at best a trivial improvement in results.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#124

Post by ubermonkey » Mon, Jul 21, 2025, 5:18 PM UTC

terminalshort wrote: post #112

duxup wrote: post #4

I really sort of expected that by the time I reached my age that we'd have more policy makers that understood tech a little better. I feel like in the last say 25 or more years ... the needle hasn't moved.

They do understand the tech. They understand that allowing everyone to use E2E encryption gives them less power.

I don't think it's that nefarious. I mean, for some of them it might be, but for MOST of them they see a "law & order" issue that will resonate with stupid people ("cops can't get access to terrorist data / child molester info / human trafficking communications!"), and they just run with it without regard to downstream effects.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#125

Post by tempodox » Mon, Jul 21, 2025, 5:22 PM UTC

> US Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard has also suggested the order would be an “egregious violation” of Americans’ privacy

This is extremely ironic (“Americans’ privacy” basically does not exist), but I won't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#126

Post by jagged-chisel » Mon, Jul 21, 2025, 5:24 PM UTC

doublerabbit wrote: post #94

snickerbockers wrote: post #10

> The UK official added, this “limits what we’re able to do in the future, particularly in relation to AI regulation.” The Labour government has delayed plans for AI legislation until after May next year. What did they mean by this

The UK AI bill included a proposal to create an AI authority, forcing third party to align with their approaches to AI. They've been looking to use AI for consumer surveillance; AI user monitoring essentially. "We can't have a backdoor so we can't use AI to monitor the user"

AI and encryption are technically orthogonal. But they’ll use any guise to further their agenda.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#127

Post by dev_l1x_be » Mon, Jul 21, 2025, 5:25 PM UTC

setgree wrote: post #18

duxup wrote: post #4

I really sort of expected that by the time I reached my age that we'd have more policy makers that understood tech a little better. I feel like in the last say 25 or more years ... the needle hasn't moved.

This article is explicitly about how J.D. Vance (age 40) & others at the White House are forcefully advocating for preserving E2E encryption. Arguably not for the right reasons, but still. I'm not sure what you mean by "more" but what you are asking for is in fact happening.

And also about who is really running the show in the UK.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#128

Post by Silhouette » Mon, Jul 21, 2025, 5:27 PM UTC

reactordev wrote: post #117

Silhouette wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you really have access to secret information of that significance and you really are under an NDA that prohibits you from talking about it then why are you casually posting innuendo about it on HN?

To point out that your data isn't safe from law enforcement. Quite the contrary. I think everyone should be aware of the state we are in. And while I can't go into detail about how I know, I want others to be aware that anything on their devices is fair game. Now a day's with or without a warrant. Three letter agencies are operating with impunity. Using this very tech.

Again - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

It's no secret that there are groups actively looking for new exploits and that sometimes vulnerabilities are discovered that become zero days. It's a good bet that police and security services take an active interest in those vulnerabilities when they are found.

But that's very different to claiming the police can easily unlock any device any time they want to and there is a range of private companies around who provide that service to them.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#129

Post by kypro » Mon, Jul 21, 2025, 5:28 PM UTC

duxup wrote: post #4

I really sort of expected that by the time I reached my age that we'd have more policy makers that understood tech a little better. I feel like in the last say 25 or more years ... the needle hasn't moved.

I thought this too, but I think we misunderstood the extent to which various calls for censoring and regulating the internet where driven by a lack of understanding of the technology...

The scary thing about the UK regulators is that they seem to understand the stupidity of what they're doing, but believe it's worth it. You see this attitude everywhere in the UK – in our hate speech laws, our blasphemy laws, mass surveillance – the argument isn't that these things don't limit freedom and personal privacy. They'll agree that they do, their argument is that you shouldn't care.

With this encryption backdoor most wouldn't deny that it could be compromised, they just didn't think you should worry about it because they thought the benefits were worth it.

I think people on the internet in the 90s and early 00s were just weird people to be honest. We're very libertarian for whatever reason, and we wrongly assumed people our age were all as pro-freedom as us.

Re: UK backing down on Apple encryption backdoor after pressure from US

#130

Post by bhelkey » Mon, Jul 21, 2025, 5:28 PM UTC

jjani wrote: post #102

> Apple did not respond to a request for comment. “We have never built a back door or master key to any of our products, and we never will,” Apple said in February. This must be some "technically correct" weasel words bullcrap, as without at least equivalent access there is no chance Apple would be operating in China.

Apple stores Chinese users' iCloud data and encryption keys to that data in China in a datacenter run by a state owned firm [1].

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/technology/apple-moves-to-st...