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The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

english.elpais.com

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Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#121
post #38
post #6

It's called inflation guys. Most innovation is selling an inferior product for a lower price. Most of us can only afford that. It's the same old inflation, but repackeged to keep the official inflation number down.

This is not inflation, it's divorced from all factors, these companies are raking in record profits, and they still squeeze out price increases, smaller seats, worse customer service, just because you have no alternative, you gotta take it. It's called "Enshittification": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification . It's just the free market and the corporations giving a big middle finger to its clients. It's the…

> these companies are raking in record profits.

Only the Mag7 are raking in projects. The rest have gone nowhere.

https://x.com/pmarca/status/1946500584674324842

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#123

"Following his reasoning, it cannot be stated in absolute terms that an iPhone 15 is of “better quality” than a 2003 Nokia." This statement suffers from either viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses or from total cultural relativism in the most pejorative sense. I'm not sure about 2003, but around 2009, I owned a Nokia N900, which was arguably the flagship Nokia phone at the time. I can confidently state that c…

I owned a Nokia in 2003. The battery lasted a week and they were virtually indestructible. The phone never crashed or reset, the keys were so reliable and well placed that I could text without looking at the screen. The phone did not get slower with age. None of these things can be said about my current smart phone. Granted it does a lot more, but the quality of the things it does do is much worse.

I bought my dad a Nokia phone in 2008. A dumb phone, with just texting and calling features. It continues to work to this day, so, 17 years (the markings on the buttons are fully erased now, other than that it works). It outlived him. I don't know how they managed to build stuff like that. I would expect some electronic part to fail sometime along the way.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#124
post #4

> clothes are unrecognizable after the second wash What clothes are these? I don't buy any kind of expensive brands. I don't take any care when washing. I don't own a lot of clothes so I wear each item weekly. And my clothes last me for several years at least. The dyes have gotten noticeably better than when I was a child - when was the last time you had colors run in the wash?

I tried to get all kinds of expensive tshirts but I have yet to find a brand that won't develop holes around the seams after a year of weekly wear.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#125
At least when it comes to musical instruments, cheap instruments today are astronomically better than the cheap instruments I grew up with - and they are cheaper. The manufacturing process has become so good that what you get for $350 today, is about the same standard as what you'd pay $500-$800 for 30 years ago (which is probably closer to $1000-$1500 today).

As far as clothes go - I the cheap junk back in the day didn't last too long, either. Cheap supermarket jeans would last me maybe 1 season, before something ripped. Granted they probably only cost $20 back then - but the quality isn't too different from the H&M you purchase today for $50.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#126
I was going to write something like this at one time, only mine would be better because it would make frequent mentions of The Space Merchants.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Space_Merchants

>Through advertising, the public is constantly deluded into thinking that the quality of life is improved by all the products placed on the market.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#127
post #96

Quality has improved across many dimensions in nearly every domain I’m familiar with. In fact, I’d argue there are very few products or services that couldn’t be made today to a higher standard than at any point in the past, if we chose to prioritize that. But what’s often mistaken for a decline in quality is really a shift in priorities: toward affordability, efficiency, and accessibility. And that’s fantastic. Prod…

Not quite sure about the affordability part. Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Housing is becoming a luxury. Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship.

Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive because they get more and more stuff included. I owned cars in the 90's and cars from 2015, the newer one came in the basic trim with stuff that adds to complexity and cost, from AC and electric windows to dozen aibags, sensors and driving aids.

For housing, there are 2 things that happened: regulations made houses more expensive to build (I personally built 3 houses in the past 35 years, I saw the increase in cost) and second thing is house prices are totally disconnected to cost, my current home is evaluated (for tax purpose) about 3 times the real cost to build it. Except the buyers, everyone is happy to have a huge increase in housing cost, builders make more money, local governments raise more taxes, buyers are screwed from all sides and not many people go build their own, even if it many places is still possible (I currently planning to build a house for some friends).

But in a way building a house is cheaper: tools, technology and new materials make it faster and cheaper to build. It should make houses more affordable, if the other factors would not completely eat this saving.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#128

This article's thesis is all over the place, but the discussion here brings up an interesting topic: the decline in quality is relative to your evaluation function. If you want long lasting products, then maybe the cheaper furniture is of lower quality. If you want something light weight and affordable, then ikea is higher quality. Assuming there is a uniform product evaluation function seems like lazy journalism. Th…

But we are not in control of the evaluation function. It is heavily manipulated by ads and other patterns. You can control your own evaluation if you are actively working on it but market moves based on majority so it doesn’t matter

Except of course we are in fact in control of the evaluation function. Hence, lots of people do not buy into mainstream for each thing. The thing about capitalism is that each person still spends their money according to their evaluation function. Ads might tell me I should discard close as soon as possible, sorry but I don't. Ads also tell me I should buy a new computer, and I might. Now have I been manipulated by ads or not?

If there are ads and manipulation for every possible thing, then what you end up buying still depends on your personal tastes and preferences.

At the end of the day, ever living creatures depends on its extend environment to some extent. The idea that this ever could be different is not realistic. Even if you band all ads, other things would simply take its place as the environment your exposed to.

That said, I'm not against limit some kinds of ads and specially in some places. But we should just outright claim people are not capable of making their own decisions, that's a bad road to go down.

> market moves based on majority so it doesn’t matter

Except it does matter because we do not live in a state controlled system where if 51% people believe pants should be green, 100% of people wear green pants. Even a small number of people can be enough to create a small market for something. Go look into retro computers. The majority clearly doesn't care about old Amiga hardware and software, but yet you can buy it in various forms. There are countless examples.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#129
post #96

Quality has improved across many dimensions in nearly every domain I’m familiar with. In fact, I’d argue there are very few products or services that couldn’t be made today to a higher standard than at any point in the past, if we chose to prioritize that. But what’s often mistaken for a decline in quality is really a shift in priorities: toward affordability, efficiency, and accessibility. And that’s fantastic. Prod…

Not quite sure about the affordability part. Cars are becoming prohibitively expensive. Housing is becoming a luxury. Even consumer products are becoming increasingly expensive. Safety largely improved but not craftsmanship.

BYD launches new 2025 Dolphin EV with the same $14K price tag and more range.

https://electrek.co/2024/07/08/byd-launches-2025-dolphin-ev-...

The problems you mentioned are a local problem, not a global problem.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#130
Yes, consumerism makes us throw out and replace perfectly working things. That doesn't mean there's not a decline in quality _as well_.

> One is that attributes like durability -- which used to be a major factor in how people judged a product's quality -- have lost relevance.

> some companies design certain products -- especially household appliances -- stop working after a certain period of time. This isn't a conspiracy theory, but a proven fact.

So, in many cases we no longer factor in durability because we know that consumer products don't offer that quality _by design_.

> healthcare services may not be worse than they were a few years ago. "The big problem is that they haven't adapted to the pace of social change. They haven't evolved enough to serve the entire elderly population, whose demographic size is increasing every year"

But then they are, in fact, of worse quality for a large group of the population.

> five out of 10 consumers openly reject virtual assistants. The conclusion is clear: society isn't adapting to the pace of technological advancement.

No, that's not a clear conclusion. Another conclusion that could be drawn is that the adaptation of AI technology in customer service has lowered the quality to a point customers don't even care to bother with. I.E., the pace of technological advancement, in this case, isn't ready for the demands of society.

> It's difficult to prove that today's products are worse than those of 20 years ago.

No, it's not. Some products and consumption patterns may be harder to compare. In other cases, we have clear examples of engineered decline in quality. One example: soap companies changing not just the size of the soap (shrinkflation) but also altering the ingredients to make the bar of soap last about half as long as before. Ever look under the bed at a hotel? After the pandemic, the quality of cleaning has declined substantially, at least in my country. My previous landlord lowered the indoor temperature and raised the rent, all in the same year. House prices keep going up, but building standards are lowered.

In short: there are very real and measurable declines in quality because economies are tanking and, as the article correctly states, "the promise of capitalism" is no longer being fulfilled.

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