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37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

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Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt that with their ideas, talent, and overall ability, they could have been a company useful to society as Google. Instead, they have focused on their niche and done very well. It was their choice to stay small and avoid greatness, and I don't criticize them for it, but I think that bragging about it all over the place is a little tasteless.

You have feelings. That's great! Welcome to humanity. Do you have logic? Data? A Delphic oracle? Perspectives into a parallel universe where they hired a sales team? Something more substantial than feelings?

Be nice, Michael.

37signals once built software I loved. Salesforce builds software I loath. 37signals could have been great -- a Salesforce with wonderful software -- but the CEO is happier to pat himself on the back and brag about laziness. That's my logic. Do you feel that I am incorrect?

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's two supermarkets in town and one is unionized, the other one will probably be better for the customer in some way, usually because they'll have lower prices. Customers either don't care about unions or slightly favor them, but the end results of a union do drive customers away. I don't think it's at all arguable that unions--at least American unions--are detrimental to the health of the businesses their em…

Unions are simply a balancing force to that of the management whose sole purpose is to extract as much profit from the enterprise. Yes, a lot of bad things can happen when unions gain too much power. But that doesn't mean unions are necessarily evil. On the contrary, they are a necessary evil, as a balancing force of the evil of the profit incentive. The free market generally does not have the power to correct for ov…

>balancing force of the evil of the profit incentive.

Seriously, you need to work on your language and mindset if you think profit is evil.

Profit is just a surplus of outputs for inputs given. It's what makes people get out of bed in the morning. It is most definitely not evil.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have feelings. That's great! Welcome to humanity. Do you have logic? Data? A Delphic oracle? Perspectives into a parallel universe where they hired a sales team? Something more substantial than feelings?

Be nice, Michael. 37signals once built software I loved. Salesforce builds software I loath. 37signals could have been great -- a Salesforce with wonderful software -- but the CEO is happier to pat himself on the back and brag about laziness. That's my logic. Do you feel that I am incorrect?

> Do you feel that I am incorrect?

Yup. That's exactly how I feel. I don't know why you're bragging about your incorrectness all over the internet, though.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#124
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

God knows the first thing I do when deciding whether to shop at a supermarket is find out whether it's unionized, and avoid it if it is.

If there's two supermarkets in town and one is unionized, the other one will probably be better for the customer in some way, usually because they'll have lower prices. Customers either don't care about unions or slightly favor them, but the end results of a union do drive customers away. I don't think it's at all arguable that unions--at least American unions--are detrimental to the health of the businesses their em…

"If there's two supermarkets in town and one is unionized, the other one will probably be better for the customer in some way, usually because they'll have lower prices."

This does not at all correspond to my experience.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#125
post #113
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? It's not like we have to read tea leaves out of his board memberships to see how Jason Fried runs a business. He runs a famous business himself.

It gives an unwarranted endorsement to GRPN; their business practices are fairly reprehensible, so if a marginal investor or marginal small business customer gets screwed because a well respected guy lent credibility to their board, it's a poor choice for him.

Do you really believe any of this comment? You're a pretty smart guy. I don't believe you think anyone reads this article and thinks Fried is saying Groupon runs that way, or that Fried is in any way endorsing how Groupon is run.

I know this is a message board and we're all committing message board thinking, but snap out of it for just a second.

We're talking about a real person --- a person who by the way is posting on this very thread --- who runs a real business. From what I've seen of that business, it runs, successfully, the way he describes it. I wish we'd stop talking as if Fried was Chairman Mao and we're really debating global communism.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#126
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless Google has legions of Oompa Loompas hiding in its server rooms running around retrieving data as queries come in, it's a product that provides a service: it does not scale linearly with the number of people working on it. Put another way: each additional cleaning lady client consumes more of her time, and pays her more money in a fairly linear way. Google search users do not fit that pattern, and, more importa…

You realize that there exist more than two business models in the whole of the world, right? Where do you get this strange taxonomy of "products" versus "services" anyways?

Go easy on him, it's only the second week of the semester.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#127
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To each his own, but would someone really want to keep cleaning professionally even if they were wealthy? I could easily seeing less-than-profitable but creative hobbies being way more interesting for hypothetical cleaners who were wealthy and wanted to stay busy. I felt the same way until I actually met a wealthy cleaner. All I can say is never underestimate the power of habit and the difficulty of breaking routin…

Cute story, but I'd put money on people doing cleaning work, statistically, being happier doing their hobby rather than cleaning. Not all cleaning people work for investment managers that cut them in on sweet deals. Truth be told, I would guess that those are probably a minority.

I'd put money on most cleaners not having hobbies =) (Sorry couldn't help myself...I come from a family of very blue collar folks and it's a running joke that your hobby is sleep)

My main point is it's hard to break years of routine/habit. If someone has done the same thing for 20 years, I don't expect them to suddenly change. Even when change would bring greater happiness over the long-term, I'm not betting against the comfort of status quo.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#128
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? Customers won't give you, hapless employee, job security if your employers can easily replace you with someone cheaper because you have a flimsy (or no!) contract, nor will customers help you with disputes with management, or wrongful termination, or promotion from within, or even the too-little-emphasized increased potential for synergy between the ranks that unions afford, or any of the many other things that u…

You shouldn't need a contract if you're adding value to the organization. If you can get replaced by someone cheaper, then you weren't worth what you were getting. Why the heck should a business pay more for the same outputs? If you're adding more value than you cost, your job is always safe. The union mentality is exactly the reason American manufacturing has left for cheaper pastures. Union employees aren't about a…

> If you can get replaced by someone cheaper, then you weren't worth what you were getting.

Spoken as someone with specialist skills that are in sufficient demand and business critical enough.

> I will never hire union labor ever. I would close down a business before I submitted to the extortion of unions.

So in other words, clearly people need contracts - and some will need unions -, since you're making it very clear you have preconceived notions about employee behaviour based on external factors that have nothing to do with their job performance, and you're not the only one.

Unions were formed because people realized their negotiating positions were excessively weak compared to the employer-side who held all the cards. E.g. getting to the 8 hour working day, for example, took American unions many decades of struggle to achieve (and the rest of the world commemorated that struggle by making May 1st the international day for workers demonstrations in direct response to the Haymarket massacre)

> Contracts protect the employees that strive to do the minimal possible under the terms of the contract.

Contracts also protects great employees of employers that strive to do the minimal possible under the terms of the contract.

Somehow you seem to expect that employees should trust you implicitly.

> If you don't like a company, you're free to quit, but in closed-shop states, if you don't like the union, too bad, you have to be a member (or pay the dues) if you want to be employed in that field in your state.

So why are you making your arguments about unions in general when you then go on to describe features of unions in some locations that are by no means universal?

There's no doubt that there are unions that have managed to push things too far, but your argumentation is like saying all companies are bad because some companies have been abusive.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose he doesn't really have to prove anything to anyone. Not everyone wants to run a 10,000 or 50,000 employee company. Not everyone would be happy with the stress or bureaucracy involved. Not to put too fine a point on it, but your attitude is exactly the kind of thing he's talking about in the linked interview. Mega growth and mega profits are one measure of success. A life with low stress and plenty of time f…

I agree with what you. His style of running a business as likely maximized his personal happiness, and possibly his employees. But I would have liked to see him say "we could have been far more profitable, but we didn't care about that, so we limited hours and didn't hire salespeople." Instead what I hear him saying is "we are the best business we could be, because we limit hours."

>> His style of running a business as likely maximized his personal happiness, and possibly his employees.

Rather than the main focus being happiness, I think the main focus is:

Are you building something great?

And he believes maximizing happiness and job satisfaction is a core component of achieving something great.

Re: 37signals Earns Millions Each Year. Its CEO’s Model? His Cleaning Lady

#130

"I won’t name names. I used to name names. But I think all you have to do is read TechCrunch. Look at what the top stories are, and they’re all about raising money, how many employees they have, and these are metrics that don’t matter. What matters is: Are you profitable? Are you building something great? Are you taking care of your people? Are you treating your customers well? In the coverage of our industry as a wh…

The reason the press writes about funding rather than revenues is not some kind of conspiracy to focus on the wrong things, but simply because reporters know about funding rounds and not about revenues.

It's clear that the press would write about revenues if they could, because they write a lot about the revenues of public companies. They're able to do that because public companies have to disclose their revenues.

Private companies never publish their revenues. Including 37signals. So if Jason really believes this is a terrible problem and wants to set things on the right course, he should set an example and start publishing 37signals' revenue numbers.

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