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How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

blog.keen.io

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Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#121
post #78
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His point is that the methodology is flawed because of the unique circumstances of the author being engaged to the CEO. This skews the inputs upward in her favor.

You think because they're engaged that she was more likely to get a favorable offer?

It completely distorts the negotiating position because (assuming no divorce), she's going to benefit from the success either way.

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#122

Despite strangely subtle mention of the fact that the CEO and author are engaged, I think it's worth noting that has a material impact on a common sense analysis. In the likely event that this start-up fizzles out, it's reassuring that your spouse has a stable corporate job. Sure, engineers are in very high demand RIGHT NOW, but in a few years the bubble could burst and your family could be in trouble. Do you really…

Actually, we did that split for the last 5 years (I'm the CEO from the post).

If you're curious about Michelle's reasoning, check out one of her other posts, "Why I Left Consulting and Joined a Startup": http://blog.keen.io/post/26096112831/why-i-left-consulting-a...

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss the rent subsidy part? It was listed at $12K, so $1K/month. But lets step back from that for a moment. $70K gross income. Lets say you put $2K into an IRA (no 401k) so $68K after that. Estimated federal tax is $10,592 [1], Another 6.2% goes to Social security so $4,340 [2], estimated state income tax (CA) is about $3,922 so rolling that up, $68K - $18,854 in taxes thats not quite $50K left over ($49,146)…

While I agree with your sentiment about frugal living, in the spirit of being realitic, $500 a month for food is awfully low. At 3 meals a day, that's $5 a meal. No easy feat unless you go for processed, preserved and packaged, which is hardly a good way to live and eat.

I live in San Francisco. I can go to any of the nearby markets in Chinatown and buy more produce than I could possibly eat in a day for under $10. I like to cook soup-based dishes which would be a pain to take to an office, but a sandwich and a piece of fruit is pretty doable. I believe my great grandfather did that for decades.

Honestly, I think going with what old people ate while you were a kid will be easier on the pocketbook and the health.

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss the rent subsidy part? It was listed at $12K, so $1K/month. But lets step back from that for a moment. $70K gross income. Lets say you put $2K into an IRA (no 401k) so $68K after that. Estimated federal tax is $10,592 [1], Another 6.2% goes to Social security so $4,340 [2], estimated state income tax (CA) is about $3,922 so rolling that up, $68K - $18,854 in taxes thats not quite $50K left over ($49,146)…

While I agree with your sentiment about frugal living, in the spirit of being realitic, $500 a month for food is awfully low. At 3 meals a day, that's $5 a meal. No easy feat unless you go for processed, preserved and packaged, which is hardly a good way to live and eat.

Actually for one person $500/month is pretty generous if you don't go out to eat, fortunately I think we can get really really good data here since Safeway [1] lets you browse their products online. I typed in the zip code for Redwood City where they deliver (94065) that gave me access to their products and prices and then put together a shopping list that would provide 3 meals a day for me for approximately 30 days [2]. I didn't use any coupons or sale items, I included eating steak as well as chicken, but I do assume that cooking a whole chicken would equate to the meat item for three meals, the initial one, the left over one, and then perhaps any remaining chicken chopped up and put into a salad. I included condiments although generally you won't use all of a condiment 'unit' in a month, and I included a 5 dollar allotment for 'spices' since you buy one thing of salt (0.99) and it lasts you for 6 months.

You can see that for breakfast I'm eating either cereal, eggs, or maybe pancakes, for lunch its generally sandwiches with soup and a salad, and for dinners its a meat (chicken or beef) a vegetable, and a starch (either rice or potatoes). I didn't go 'all organic' or anything which could raise your prices. I also included a half gallon of ben & jerry's ice cream, tea as the 'non water' beverage, and Oreos (my all time favorite cookie). All totaled its $443. Under my $500 budget.

[1] http://www.safeway.com/IFL/Grocery/Home

[2] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Atwe7dq6iPQHdDU...

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#125
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"rent subsidy"? Are you kidding? Man, I must be living in the wrong town. In Florida, the fact that we offer medical insurance and matching 401k sets us apart from most business here. Though we do have a few other perks.. you cell service is covered by the company. Also everyone gets an ipad (it's yours once you past 6 months). But really though, these "perks" help us (the company) more. But this just proves, bubbles…

"But this just proves, bubbles exist." No, it just proves that the market for tech talent is stronger in the Bay Area than it is for Florida.

I'd also imagine the average talent level is higher in the Bay (by quite a bit).

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#126
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But this just proves, bubbles exist." No, it just proves that the market for tech talent is stronger in the Bay Area than it is for Florida.

I'd also imagine the average talent level is higher in the Bay (by quite a bit).

Surprisingly you would find this isn't necessarily true. The reasoning goes like this:

Pool of available jobs is smaller, so the competition is fiercer, so the mediocre talent takes itself out of the game and all your are left with are the stars who don't want to move. I know lots of engineers in N. Carolina around the Research Triangle Park area who are way more talented than some folks in the Bay Area but they don't abide the culture that is Silicon Valley and so they don't move here.

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#127
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty common to subsidize employee equity because employees having equity are incented to work, and because common generally is discounted to preferred by a larger factor very early in the formation of the company. It's reasonable to simultaneously treat employee equity as $2mm valuation and investor equity at $5mm valuation, especially with a note. In this case, though, I think the way to win the negotiation i…

Higher equity is always the most rewarding option in the best possible outcome. But it's hard to leave safe money on the table. Four years from now the company could be worth way more than the current $5mm, then those $20k/year would look like scraps. I agree with tptacek; 100/0.1 and 50/1 suit very different persons, the company should decide which type it's going after and limit that range.

At 50/1 for a company just out of of an accelerator you would have to think that you would be better off jut starting your own company.

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#128
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a fair thing to assume. Full disclosure: I'm Dan, one of the other co-founders of Keen. I actually did the negotiation with Michelle - Kyle delivered our original offer. But she's one of my best friends as well. As is Kyle. As is our other co-founder and the two other people on our team. The negotiation was awkward, but I'm personally convinced that we're a stronger team because of our close personal b…

Did the team contemplate in making this offer that if something went sour in that relationship, you'd end up with a CEO who has both personal drama and potentially a very difficult situation in the office, given that she'd be reporting to him? How did your corporate counsel feel about this? Your board? If she's not reporting to the CEO, how does her new manager feel about having a team member who's his bosses' fiance…

Yes. Maybe a whole separate blog post coming on that :)

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#129
post #112
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food onsite is a special case. It's tax-advantaged for the employer (if offering meals onsite is "for the convenience of the employer, and for a business purpose"), and food has a high search/storage/etc. cost. Similarly, I'd value a 30" monitor at about $1k/yr salary.

> Food onsite is a special case. It's tax-advantaged for the employer (if offering meals onsite is "for the convenience of the employer, and for a business purpose"), Interesting, I read somewhere that Google pays taxes on their free food. How do they argue the free food is for their convenience when their employees can just go out and purchase food and eat at their desk? Especially non-essential foods like snacks, s…

One thing worth noting: You have to hit the so-called minimum deduction (9K last I checked) to benefit from this sort of write off, whereas a company can do it regardless of absolute annual business expenditure.

Re: How I negotiated my startup compensation (with numbers)

#130
post #4

A tip for people writing on corporate blogs: let us know who you are up front. Whether there's a byline under the title or a short intro sentence/paragraph preceding the article, knowing who you are gives the reader a way to frame what your story. Because the tech industry is so heterosexual male-dominated, when I read that the author was engaged to the CEO, I first assumed I had misunderstood, then I thought the aut…

I wish good luck to all involved with this company. I am not sure if it's a good idea to work so closely with your fiance/wife/husband in a start up. If things don't work out, there will be more than a job that's lost.
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