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They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

nytimes.com

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Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#121

Post by FpUser »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #53
acquisitionsilk wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the business school is silly enough to accept people based partially on the idea that they climbed Everest, perhaps he was right to treat the task of getting in to the place as essentially theatre.

Isn't most business success about convincing people to buy expensive tulips while you (legally) walk away with the money and leave them holding the bags, then rinse and repeat? Seems like he'd be the right person for the job. And then you wonder why so many young people flirt with communism or want to see the capitalist system burn to the ground. What's the point of ethics and hard work if those who just lie their wa…

Example here in Canada and Toronto in particular. There were plenty of independent pet clinics and they used to charge somewhat reasonable prices. Now nearly all of those were bought by big companies / investors. Prices went through the roof, competition is down, and the only thing they want to discuss with the customer is how to squeeze the most money disregarding of results.

Yes I do want those assholes burned at the stake.

Similar story happens in many other areas. People are being squeezed from their money on all fronts. North American IT persons are rare exception of an ordinary person who can still make the ends meet and still have some healthy chunk left to enjoy life.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#122

Post by patentatt »

severusdd wrote: post #91

Xenon isn’t a new magic. Russian athletes were rumored to use it in the 2014 Sochi Olympic, and WADA banned it shortly thereafter: https://www.aip.org/inside-science/catching-some-xes-has-str... It spikes HIF-1α → EPO for a day or two, but meta-analyses still doesn't show a real performance bump, let alone safety at 8 km. Feels less like innovation and more like mountaineering’s own carbon-plate shoes, except the fai…

What's the issue with carbon-plated shoes?

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#123

Post by Aurornis »

Note that these all of these Xenon-Everest stories come back to the same person: Lukas Furtenbach

Why? Because he’s launching a business that sells Xenon-assisted Everest tours: https://www.furtenbachadventures.com/

These stories are never about uncovering an underground world of Xenon performance enhancement or discussing the science (which is much less optimistic about Xenon’s benefits). They’re always lazily relaying the PR information that Lukas Furtenbach gives them.

So while it’s true that Xenon appears to have some possible performance enhancing properties, all of these news pieces about how climbers are using Xenon always come back to this one same guy who is, coincidentally, trying really hard to sell people on expensive Xenon-assisted Everest tours.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#124

Post by exhilaration »

TechDebtDevin wrote: post #109
jebarker wrote: post #89

Climbing Everest these days just seems to be the quintessential activity for people that have lost site of what really matters in life. It's where you end up if you never grow out of the idea that life is a competition you can win.

I think theres more to it than just ego. I find myself watching Everest videos on Youtube (shout out Michael Tracy's channel). Ive never done mountaineering but I become fascinated by these stories of people on the mountain and sometimes wonder if I could do it. I definately never will, theres lots of other things id rather invest my time in but I can definately see the allure and why people become obsessed with doin…

If you're interested in Everest, I loved Into Thin Air, by Jon Krakauer - it's absolutely fantastic and available on Audible. Then last week I discovered Everest on Netflix, which isn't great but it's based on the book and they do a good job showing you the route and distances between the camps with CGI.

Anyways, after all that I have zero desire to ever go near Everest or any other risky mountain climb.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#126

Post by Aurornis »

severusdd wrote: post #91

Xenon isn’t a new magic. Russian athletes were rumored to use it in the 2014 Sochi Olympic, and WADA banned it shortly thereafter: https://www.aip.org/inside-science/catching-some-xes-has-str... It spikes HIF-1α → EPO for a day or two, but meta-analyses still doesn't show a real performance bump, let alone safety at 8 km. Feels less like innovation and more like mountaineering’s own carbon-plate shoes, except the fai…

> but meta-analyses still doesn't show a real performance bump

I wish all of these news articles would discuss the actual studies instead of lazily parroting the claims of the one guy who is trying to sell expensive Xenon-assisted Everest hikes.

These articles are always PR pieces for Lukas Furtenbach’s expensive Everest tours. Every single time I see the words “Xenon” and “Everest” in a headline, his name is in the article as the source.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#127

Post by FirmwareBurner »

FpUser wrote: post #121
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't most business success about convincing people to buy expensive tulips while you (legally) walk away with the money and leave them holding the bags, then rinse and repeat? Seems like he'd be the right person for the job. And then you wonder why so many young people flirt with communism or want to see the capitalist system burn to the ground. What's the point of ethics and hard work if those who just lie their wa…

Example here in Canada and Toronto in particular. There were plenty of independent pet clinics and they used to charge somewhat reasonable prices. Now nearly all of those were bought by big companies / investors. Prices went through the roof, competition is down, and the only thing they want to discuss with the customer is how to squeeze the most money disregarding of results. Yes I do want those assholes burned at t…

> Prices went through the roof

This is just exhibit 8345346 that this type of "free market" doesn't result in lower prices for consumers, but this grift has been going on for a long time now. Free market now means private investors are free to take over entire markets and monopolize them and bribe/lobby the government regulatory agencies to look the other way at best, or enact regulations that act as moats to defend their position against competitors at worst.

The current state of Canada (stagnating wages, exploding CoL) is what's coming everywhere in the west. The US seems to be most resilient to this, probably due to its status as the world reserve currency and a larger, more competitive economy.

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#128

Post by zehaeva »

dmd wrote: post #81
formerly_proven wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s kinda curious that xenon can be used both for performance enhancement _and_ as a general anaesthetic.

And as a dessert topping!

No, It's a FLOOR WAX!

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#129

Post by wat10000 »

ty6853 wrote: post #119
wat10000 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most business is about providing value by delivering goods or services that people want and are willing to pay for. Visit your local shops, how many of them are convincing people to buy proverbial tulips and leaving their customers holding the bag? Look at the most valuable companies in the world; they all do or make stuff people happily pay for because they actually find value in it. Certainly there are people who s…

But there is a real magic that happens in the process there. When two people make a deal, voluntarily, at least rationally (unless it is charity) both expect to be better off. The magic of the businessman is to connive his way into getting the largest slice of the 'better off'. He generally can't legally make a deal without generating value, but if he can capture it to the point the customer is only one iota better o…

Customers also tend to try to get the largest slice of the "better off." That's not special. Do you take less pay than you could get because you don't want to be greedy? Do you voluntarily pay more than the listed price when purchasing items? Of course not.

In a properly functioning market, the limiting factor is competition. A business can't capture 99% of the "better off" because the guy down the street will undercut it by only capturing 98% and all the customers will go there. A customer likewise can't capture 99% because the business will decide it's not worthwhile and sell to customers who capture less. Somewhere in the middle is found equilibrium.

Bag-holding is different, it means there's some sort of trickery and the other side doesn't actually benefit from the transaction. And this does happen, but it's not the norm. Again, go take a look at your local shops. Which ones are engaging in this?

Re: They used Xenon to climb Everest in days – is it the future of mountaineering?

#130

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

msie wrote: post #92
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't most business success about convincing people to buy expensive tulips while you (legally) walk away with the money and leave them holding the bags, then rinse and repeat? Seems like he'd be the right person for the job. And then you wonder why so many young people flirt with communism or want to see the capitalist system burn to the ground. What's the point of ethics and hard work if those who just lie their wa…

I look at Tesla stock in wonderment of how it can keep on rising.

The automotive industry has historically been the most important in both the United States economy and even the world's. It employed millions upon millions, in high-wage jobs. Some large fraction of marketing was for the automotive industry. Even today, having a new luxury car is a status symbol (all the more so if the youngest generations are basically cut out of that). If Tesla can plausibly promise to keep that going forward in an era where no one tolerates burning fossil fuels, then how could it be anything other than a good investment? Of course the "how could it not" could easily crumble (and has already started doing just that).
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