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Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

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Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#121

Post by adolph »

bb123 wrote: post #19

Reminds me of the fact that for 500 years everyone graduating with a BA from Oxford had to swear that they would never agree to the reconciliation of Henry Symeonis, despite no one having any idea who he was for most of that time.

Which reminds me of The Cagots were a persecuted minority who lived in the west of France and northern Spain [0]

  The origins of the Cagots remain uncertain . . . . Despite the varied and 
  often mythical explanations for their origins, the only consistent aspect of 
  the Cagots was their societal exclusion and the lack of any distinct physical 
  or cultural traits differentiating them from the general population.
0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagot

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#122

Post by pessimizer »

mr_toad wrote: post #107
maratc wrote: post #14

That's the British system working as designed. If there's a law, no matter how ancient, the British should comply. If a law needs to be changed, that's the Parliament's job. Even the British courts, in sharp contrast to many other places, "deliver the law as it is, and not as we wish it to be" -- see for example [0] or [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashford_v_Thornton [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owens_v…

> Even the British courts, in sharp contrast to many other places, "deliver the law as it is, and not as we wish it to be" The English practically invented the idea of common law. Even today there are still important legal principles based entirely on the decisions of earlier courts.

There are still important legal principles in the US and other places around the world based entirely on the decisions of earlier English courts. The first local decisions will reference English cases, and English legal experts often would have been consulted.

Same thing with most of the world's parliaments and congresses having to reference English Parliamentary precedent in order to figure out how to operate themselves. The UK Parliament and courts may be terrible, but they invented the thing and we're forks.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#123

Post by throwawaymaths »

pmyteh wrote: post #105
jvvw wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like it was removed in 1827. I don't actually remember having to say anything at any of my graduation ceremonies there (BA, MA, DPhil), just walking on to the stage. I do wonder if at matriculation we all had to make some oath together but I think I would have remembered if that had been the case. I have a strong feeling though I might have had to make an oath when I became a scholar - there was definitely a ce…

You'll have collectively said "do fidem". The rest is read by the official at the table, not the graduands. The question as to whether this constitutes swearing an oath or making a simple promise was an interesting one for me as Quakers traditionally refuse to do the former.

"i give my trust". i believe that would be a promise or affirmation as it does not invoke a god. Unless it's the accusative of the goddess of faith (unlikely).

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#124

Post by pessimizer »

Projectiboga wrote: post #120
mr_toad wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even the British courts, in sharp contrast to many other places, "deliver the law as it is, and not as we wish it to be" The English practically invented the idea of common law. Even today there are still important legal principles based entirely on the decisions of earlier courts.

A formal UK Constitution doesn't exist and is a striking example of this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_K... The constitution of the United Kingdom comprises the written and unwritten arrangements that establish the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as a political body. Unlike in most countries, no official attempt has been made to codify such arrangements into a single…

In the US we only have a remnant of that in the Senate, in what has been popularly marketed as "the Nuclear Option." A Senator just makes a point of order that a Senate rule is the opposite of what it actually, verifiably is. The chair denies it, the Senator appeals the decision, and a majority of the Senate then overrules the chair.

After this has happened, the rule just changes and whatever was not in order in the past is in order in the future (or vice versa.) In the Senate as in Parliament; the majority of Parliament is the law, it can't break the law.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#125

Post by Joker_vD »

wirrbel wrote: post #117
wisty wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US. There are vague rights in the constitution. It could be a disaster for the courts to interpret them too literally (Is literally any weapon OK in the 2nd? Does free speech include a mob boss ordering a hit?) and constitutions are really hard to amend, so heavy interpretation is a nessessary evil.

That is an interesting example because the second amendment is I think a primary example of a law that is very creatively read by folks that consider themselves literalists. if the 2nd amendmend was literally interpreted it would be (quoting from memory) “in order to form a well-ordered militia the right to bear arms shall not be infringed” As in you cannot infringe the right to bear arms in a well ordered militia, b…

That's... how the 2nd amendment used to be treated, actually: state laws against conceit carry have lo-o-ong history, and they've been held to be perfectly constitutionally until recently. Oh, and "well-regulated" used to mean "well trained and supplied" back in those day.

And the 2nd actually reads (if you fix its grammar since it's ungrammatical by the standards of the modern English language) "since the well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" — now notice that it's a conditional rule, and its premise in "since..." is no longer true, militias are not necessary for the security of a country; and so the conclusion should lose its power. And arguably it's what the Founders intended: if they meant it as an absolute rule, they would've omitted the first part of it and would have simply stated that "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed", period.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#126

Post by alnwlsn »

bregma wrote: post #103
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic but I am now old enough that more than once Calvinball references were lost with my co-workers. I was surprised (and then sad) at the realization that Bill Watterson is fading from the cultural ethos as I age.

Gone are the days when everyone was spammed with Monty Python references. The Gen-Zs in my office haven't even heard of, let alone viewed, the Holy Grail so half the references our boss lays out are lost on them. At least it's not dead yet. On the other hand, I had to ask them what a Kirby was. I'm still not sure but I know it's pink.

Interesting, at least 10 years ago, everyone in my school knew Monty Python. Maybe that's because it was on Youtube at the time. Not really the case anymore; some is still there but a lot has been removed - you're not going to find 'Holy Grail part 1/11' these days.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#127

Post by dijit »

fsckboy wrote: post #74
eleveriven wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bureaucratic tradition at its finest

Chesterton's fence

The man cannot be living, ergo there can be no reconciliation, ergo the promise/oath can only exist because nobody bothers to remove it; not because we don’t know the reasons for its existence.

Though largely it wouldn’t matter in this case.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#128

Post by peteri »

walthamstow wrote: post #98
red_admiral wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delays due to trucks striking bridges are a worldwide problem, at least in countries with railroads. Despite yellow black striped reflective panels and height warning signs and sometimes height detectors that trigger flashing red lights. Perhaps we should try a bale of straw next. The London Blackwall tunnel has a more modern take on checking height: https://maps.app.goo.gl/b5P5Td1hsuSjLU3w8 traffic signals, barriers…

Your link shows the Dartford Crossing, an M25 bridge miles downstream of the City. The Blackwall Tunnel runs under the Thames at Greenwich and afaik just has the old school hanging metal blocks at height https://maps.app.goo.gl/N5xSF148ggLVTDtS8 It doesn't surprise me too much that police are on standby, a closure of either tunnel or bridge has a major effect on traffic all over London

There are additional traffic lights on the blackwall tunnel further in and a slip road out that can be used for overheight vehicles. I do remember having a 10-15 minute wait once while they sorted things out when a lorry driver got caught.

I'd have a feeling there are automated signs prior to the tunnel (or at least used to be) but I've not been through the tunnel for a year or so and things will have changed with the Silvertown tunnel opening.

I have seen someone not paying attention at the Rotherhithe tunnel and the roof of their van was a mess (and they're going to pick up a fine probably due to restrictions, the 2 tonnes gross weight limit is lower than a lot of van drivers expect)

Edit there were: https://maps.app.goo.gl/MP7fkhS394DJPQaZ9 If you zoom in you can see the overheight vehicle warning.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#129

Post by aaronbaugher »

bregma wrote: post #103
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic but I am now old enough that more than once Calvinball references were lost with my co-workers. I was surprised (and then sad) at the realization that Bill Watterson is fading from the cultural ethos as I age.

Gone are the days when everyone was spammed with Monty Python references. The Gen-Zs in my office haven't even heard of, let alone viewed, the Holy Grail so half the references our boss lays out are lost on them. At least it's not dead yet. On the other hand, I had to ask them what a Kirby was. I'm still not sure but I know it's pink.

That's sad. It's not like when I was watching Holy Grail in the late 80s it was in theaters, and the "effects" weren't good enough when it was made to become dated. We watched it and lots of other stuff on VHS because it was good, regardless of when it was made.

I suppose some of the jokes depend on cultural things that might not be taught as well anymore, like the Trojan Horse. But most of it is about human nature, so it seems like that should hold up.

Re: Ancient law requires a bale of straw to hang from Charing Cross rail bridge

#130

Post by mionhe »

bmacho wrote: post #104
sethammons wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've noticed similar. I quote lots of movies, usually one liners as appropriate. Between age and less uniform media exposure, my references more often than not fall flat. And I feel less connected.

> And I feel less connected. Watch whatever today's kids watch.

I like to use the phrase "skibidi" wrong. My kids make the greatest faces.
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