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Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

yle.fi

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Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#121

Post by anal_reactor »

reddalo wrote: post #47
blueflow wrote: post #41

Get a look on the track topology on openrailwaymap: https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?style=gauge&lat=62.774837258...

That's very interesting. I wonder why Spain is different than the rest of Europe, given it's connected by land. It makes more sense for islands such as Ireland to retain their old gauge.

The Iberian Peninsula functioned like an island in many contexts. Yes, it is attached to the rest of Europe, but in order to get there, you need to cross high mountains. Note how few roads and railways cross between Spain and France.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#122

Post by dotancohen »

oblio wrote: post #110
vesinisa wrote: post #14

Here's a much better article from the Finnish public broadcaster giving more context: https://yle.fi/a/74-20161606 My comments: The important thing to note that at this point it's just a political posturing and an announcement of intent. They haven't shown any concrete technical plan how this would actually be executed. > "Of course, we are very pragmatic and realistic, we cannot do this in five years. Planning will…

Fear of a foreign invasion by a country much larger than your, and one that occupied you once for 200 years and attacked you again just 20 years after independence tends to clear the mind.

Crazy thing is, I don't live in Finland yet this description could describe our situation almost identically as well. And I can think of yet _another_ place on Earth with a similar situation.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#123

Post by dotancohen »

varsketiz wrote: post #106
indiantinker wrote: post #100

TBH, it seems like a questionable way to spend EU money. Technically, it's fascinating, but unless it's part of a broader geopolitical or long-term interoperability strategy, it's hard to justify the costs. In Spain, we already deal with both Iberian and standard gauges—trains like the Talgo models can change gauges with minimal delay. It's not seamless, but it works reasonably well. Spain also has the world's second…

The goal is defence - to prevent easy russian train logistics deep into Finland.

Wants to prevent the Russians from fielding dual gauge technology like the Spanish?

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#125

Post by theshrike79 »

dotancohen wrote: post #119
varsketiz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the main goals of this is to not have the russian gauge available in case russians attack, so that logistics deeper into Finland cant happen easily with the same train, so backwards compatability is not desired.

But if the Spanish can muster dual gauge trains, what's to prevent the Russians from doing the same? Or is the Finnish gauge a state secret?

The difference between Finnish and Russian gauge is 4mm

IIRC the diff to European standard is closer to 10cm, still doable but a hurdle compared to just driving a trainload of troops to the middle of Helsinki it's a bit harder

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#126

Post by pjc50 »

lukan wrote: post #114
andriamanitra wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that but it is still economic: I highly doubt fixing a minor delay in material movement is the most effective use of these billions.

It is not a minor delay and in case of war such a delay can easily cost billions. And if there isn't a war, the benefits of a interconnected and integrated european railwail network are potentially huge. 300 km/h trains connecting Finnland with Spain with no delay or bumps? That would be something.

> 300 km/h trains connecting Finnland with Spain with no delay or bumps?

Bit tricky this: either you cross the Baltic by ferry and resume at Tallinn, or you have to go a long way round north from Helsinki and come down again through Sweden, across Oresund and through Denmark.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#127

Post by theshrike79 »

potato3732842 wrote: post #117
varsketiz wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the main goals of this is to not have the russian gauge available in case russians attack, so that logistics deeper into Finland cant happen easily with the same train, so backwards compatability is not desired.

It's not like this results in a categorical difference in difficulty. Gauge switching infrastructure is common at borders. Yeah stopping and switching is slower than driving right through but it's not the end of the world in the long tail of military logistics.

Russian military logistics _heavily_ depend on trains, everything that can go on a train, does so. Flight and vehicle stuff is mostly an afterthought.

Any hindrance we can put on the Finnish-Russian border to stop them just unloading 12 cars of fresh troops in the middle of the country is a good thing.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#128

Post by Akronymus »

detaro wrote: post #89
john-h-k wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t OBB Railjet trains travel at 230km/h?

Australia, not Austria ;)

I can count on one hand how often I've seen that mixup happen in that direction.

As an austrian, I am amused.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#129

Post by theshrike79 »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #97
vesinisa wrote: post #14

Here's a much better article from the Finnish public broadcaster giving more context: https://yle.fi/a/74-20161606 My comments: The important thing to note that at this point it's just a political posturing and an announcement of intent. They haven't shown any concrete technical plan how this would actually be executed. > "Of course, we are very pragmatic and realistic, we cannot do this in five years. Planning will…

Or they will start with a few of the most important lines that connect the countries and ports.

That was the plan, one rail that can go from somewhere in Finland all the way to central Europe without stopping to change rail gauges.

Re: Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

#130

Post by adrianmsmith »

varsketiz wrote: post #98
cladopa wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Once they have the cost estimates and effects on existing rail traffic studied, I bet construction will never start. It is not that hard. Countries like Spain have already two different gauges and have the necessary technology in the trains to change between different systems.

One of the main goals of this is to not have the russian gauge available in case russians attack, so that logistics deeper into Finland cant happen easily with the same train, so backwards compatability is not desired.

> One of the main goals of this is to not have the russian gauge available in case russians attack

This doesn't seem like it can be a goal given

> maybe in 2032 we can start construction

I mean unless the plan is to assume Russia won't attack until e.g. 2040 when construction will be complete && Russia can't implement multi-gauge trains that Spain is already using now?

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