Live data from Hacker News

Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

thecoder.cafe

121–130 of 147 posts

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#121

There is a certain amount of irony when the cookie policy agreement is buggy on a story about complicated & complex systems. Clicking on "Only Necessary" causes the cookie policy agreement to reappear.

Same here, it's because you have third party cookies blocked.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what the math is reflecting. Project succeeds if all of 10 people does their job well. Each person has a 95% chance of succeeding. 0.95^10 ~= 60%, and so the chance that all 10 people do their job successfully is ~60%. Those jobs also include things like management and product design, and so the coordination risk is reflected in the 5% chance that the manager drops the ball on communication. (As a manager, I s…

That's what I mean "only 5%" encapsulating all failure modes (comms/implementation/coordination/etc) is very low. And that under-estimation compounds to make the top level 60% much higher than it should be. A 7.5% rate takes top-level success odds below 50% - 46%. A not unrealistic 10% takes the top level down to 35%. Etc.

For extra fun we are doing more than one project in a row.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#123
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d wager 90% time spent at Google is fighting incidental organizational complexity, which is virtually unlimited.

Equally important is the amount of time they save because of available abstractions to use like infra, tooling etc

I think I understand what you are saying, and I agree.

Google has all sorts of great infra projects that simplify complex domains. Those are solved problems now, so nobody notices it.

The existence of incidental complexity isn’t evidence that the counter factual is less complexity.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don’t get the connection to capitalism here. Care to elaborate?

Really, it just references the ridiculous lengths companies do to not actually pay employees to do good work. Utterly broken reward systems, foosball tables, etc.

I have several times saved my companies multiples of my salary in saved cloud costs or other instances, and always of my own initiative out of "professionalism". There are lots of stories I recall on HN comments of similar things, and sure maybe they got a promotion or a title... I have heard of AWS tech people getting pretty big bonuses for big service wins. But that was a huge anomaly.

Capitalism is supposed to (in theory) reward efficiency and productivity. The CEOs certainly know how to advocate for financial performance rewards, as do many other managerial tiers.

Candy bars? Christ, it's kindergarten. I just never fail to be amazed that "capitalism" is a bunch of rigid hierarchical despotic firms fighting in a "free market"... well back when there were approximation of free markets. When you're in these tightly structured orgs, it's like authoritarian planned economies (that is communism in the totalitarian soviet sense, not any putative ideal of communism).

I'll spare you all the further rants about Middle Manaagement Machiavellianism.

Congrats on your candy bar and employee of the week picture.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phrase thrown around was “collaboration headwind”, the idea was if project success depends on 1 person with a 95% chance of success, project success also had a 95% chance. But if 10 people each need to succeed at a 95% chance, suddenly the project success likelihood becomes 60%… In reality, lazy domain owners layered on processes, meetings, documents, and multiple approvals until it took 6 months to change the te…

Another side of this coin is that the expected payoff from a project depends on how many unrelated projects your organization is engaging in , which is deeply counterintuitive to most people. Every project carries with it three possibilities: that of success, where the company makes money, that of failure, where the company does not, and that of a "critical failure", where the project goes so wrong that it results in…

"Nothing breeds conservatism like having something to conserve" was a recurring line from a founder-type, complaining individuals had become less dramatically innovative as the "startup" succeeded and prospered. Though they had colleagues who thought the line misapplied. IIRC, fuzzily.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#126

The cookie banner reappears indefinitely on this website when I click 'only necessary' lol.

Thankfully I dont see a cookie banner at all. Did you try moving continents?

or ublock and adding all the cookie blocker lists

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get the connection to capitalism here. Care to elaborate?

Really, it just references the ridiculous lengths companies do to not actually pay employees to do good work. Utterly broken reward systems, foosball tables, etc. I have several times saved my companies multiples of my salary in saved cloud costs or other instances, and always of my own initiative out of "professionalism". There are lots of stories I recall on HN comments of similar things, and sure maybe they got a…

Look, I’m just as cynical about capitalism and perverse reward systems and all that as anyone, but nobody was talking about “saving the company blah blah zillion million dollars”, more like simply offering a helping hand to someone who feels gratitude about it. It worked 100% on an employee-to-employee basis, there was zero management structure or process involved. And it was something that anyone in the company could’ve established, just by ordering a fifty eurobuck’s worth of candy on the company credit and proposing the idea to the rest of the company which was 1) small back then 2) incredibly committed to employee wellbeing in all the right ways.

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t get the connection to capitalism here. Care to elaborate?

Really, it just references the ridiculous lengths companies do to not actually pay employees to do good work. Utterly broken reward systems, foosball tables, etc. I have several times saved my companies multiples of my salary in saved cloud costs or other instances, and always of my own initiative out of "professionalism". There are lots of stories I recall on HN comments of similar things, and sure maybe they got a…

And yes, anyone could also propose that anyone be given an actual monetary raise, and as far as I know, typically those also happened.

Also, there was no middle management.

(And yes, I know, there are real problems with that sort of popularity-based thing that can absolutely cause bias against the quiet, well-performing type too modest to ask for a raise either.)

Re: Working on complex systems: What I learned working at Google

#130
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is probably the most accurate statement possible. “I just want to store 5TiB somewhere” “Ha! Did you book multiple bigtable cells” https://youtu.be/3t6L-FlfeaI?si=C5PJcrvLepABZsVF

What are peer-bonuses?

You can give someone a $175 bonus for being particularly helpful or going above and beyond. Everyone can give 20/year so it doesn't have to be that crazy of an effort to get one (although most people don't give out all 20 and the limit wasn't even enforced for a while).

It technically requires manager approval but it's kind of a faux pas for a manager to deny one unless it's a duplicate.

Post reply on HN