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A single line of code cost $8000

pietrasiak.com

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Re: A single line of code cost $8000

#121

Post by amelius »

jve wrote: post #42

> Screen Studio is a screen recorder for macOS. It is desktop app. It means we need some auto-updater to allow users to install the latest app version easily. No, it doesn't mean that. Auto updater introduced series of bad outcomes. - Downloading update without consent, causing traffic for client. - Not only that, the download keeps repeating itself every 5 minutes? You did at least detect whether user is on metered…

As a user I hate auto updates. It feels like someone pulling the rug from under me.

Re: A single line of code cost $8000

#122

Post by wqaatwt »

dist-epoch wrote: post #118
jve wrote: post #42

> Screen Studio is a screen recorder for macOS. It is desktop app. It means we need some auto-updater to allow users to install the latest app version easily. No, it doesn't mean that. Auto updater introduced series of bad outcomes. - Downloading update without consent, causing traffic for client. - Not only that, the download keeps repeating itself every 5 minutes? You did at least detect whether user is on metered…

> Wouldn't app store be perfect way to handle updates But then the HN crowd would complain "why use an app store? that's gate keeping, apple could remove your app any day, just give me a download link, and so on..." You literally can't win.

You can? Don’t check for updates every 5 minutes. Daily or even weekly would be sufficient for an app like this (if auto-updater is even necessary at all.. just show a notification)

Re: A single line of code cost $8000

#123

Post by pandemic_region »

indrex wrote: post #70

Plenty of (valid) criticism in the comments, but I appreciate the developer for publishing it.

This 1000 times. It takes courage to open up to mistakes. As a relatively young industry, we have a lot to learn still to move away from the instinctive blaming culture surrounding such failures. In this case, it's only a file being downloaded a couple of times, nobody died or got injured.

For those interested in this topic, and how other industries (e.g. Airline industry) deal with learning from or preventing failure: Sidney Dekker is the authority in this domain. Things like Restorative Just Culture, or Field guide to understanding human error could one day apply to our industry as well: https://sidneydekker.com/books.

Re: A single line of code cost $8000

#124

Post by Zambyte »

wqaatwt wrote: post #120
Zambyte wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or better yet, let the system package manager do it's job.

You’d be forced to use Apple’s App-Store, though? I don’t think there is an other package manager

As far as system package managers go, yeah. That's part of the price you pay for choosing Apple (Knows Best) TM. There is brew, nix and the like for applications on MacOS too though.

Re: A single line of code cost $8000

#125

Post by wqaatwt »

zveyaeyv3sfye wrote: post #67
karhuton wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be as user friendly as possible, always ask if user wants automatic background updates or not. If you can’t update without user noticing it, please implement manual updates as two mechanisms: 1) Emergency update for remote exploit fixes only 2) Regular updates The emergency update can show a popup, but only once. It should explain the security risk. But allow user to decline, as you should never interrupt work in…

> You have to understand, if user has 30 pieces of software, they have to update every day of the month. That is not a good overall user experience. That's not an user issue tho, it's a "packaging and distribution of updates" issue which coincidentally has been solved for other OS:es using a package manager.

Or a developer problem when they keep updating their apps every few days for no apparent reason..

Re: A single line of code cost $8000

#126

Post by VWWHFSfQ »

mieko wrote: post #114

For people finding this thread via web search in the future: screen.studio is macOS screen recording software that checks for updates every five minutes. Somehow, that alone is NOT the bug described in this post. The /other/ bug described in this blog is: their software also downloaded a 250MB update file every five minutes. The software developers there consider all of this normal except the actual download, which c…

I would be so embarrassed about this bug that I would be terrified to write it up like this. Also admitting that your users were forced to download 10s or 100s of gigabytes of bogus updates nearly continuously. This is the kind of thing that a lot of people would just quietly fix. So kudos (I guess) to blogging about it.

Re: A single line of code cost $8000

#127

Post by bee_rider »

albert_e wrote: post #96

What about the bandwidth burned needlessly for thousands of users on their data plans. At some scale such careless mistakes are going to create real effects for all users of internet through congestion as well. If this was not a $8000 mistake but was somehow covered by a free tier or other plan from Google Cloud, would they still have considered it a serious bug and fixed it as promptly? How many such poor designs ar…

They mention specifically handling the situation for one user. So, I guess it is a case-by-case thing.

Re: A single line of code cost $8000

#128

Post by vrosas »

mieko wrote: post #114

For people finding this thread via web search in the future: screen.studio is macOS screen recording software that checks for updates every five minutes. Somehow, that alone is NOT the bug described in this post. The /other/ bug described in this blog is: their software also downloaded a 250MB update file every five minutes. The software developers there consider all of this normal except the actual download, which c…

When I built an app that “phones home” regularly, I added the ability for the backend to respond to the client with an override backoff that the client would respect over the default.

Re: A single line of code cost $8000

#129

Post by madeofpalk »

Zambyte wrote: post #124
wqaatwt wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d be forced to use Apple’s App-Store, though? I don’t think there is an other package manager

As far as system package managers go, yeah. That's part of the price you pay for choosing Apple (Knows Best) TM. There is brew, nix and the like for applications on MacOS too though.

Apple doesn't "know best" - it's just that that is what the system package manager is.

You can use whatever you want outside of the App Store - most will use Sparkle to handle updates https://sparkle-project.org/. I presume Windows is similar.

Re: A single line of code cost $8000

#130

Post by Lammy »

blitzar wrote: post #99
Lammy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A 5 minute update check interval is usage-reporting in disguise. Way fewer people would turn off a setting labeled “check for updates” than one labeled “report usage statistics”.

never attribute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence

No. Eradicate this line of thinking from your brain. If the outcome is the same then the intent doesn't matter.
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