Earlier quoted context omitted.
Servers at a lot of restaurants don't expect to make minimum wage, so don't let "the owners will have have to true comp up to minimum wage" function as an excuse not to tip. If you don't want to tip, don't dine at full-service restaurants in America.
> If you don't want to tip, don't dine at full-service restaurants in America. Whenever I dine at such a place, I give a 100% tip because it’s easier math and it incentivizes me not to patronize such businesses. (I only go with friends and I never make the suggestion.) Just saying that because I disagree with this perspective; do go to these restaurants and don’t tip if that is your choice. Tipping used to be a gratu…
Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants
121–130 of 150 posts
Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have even more radical idea: Use the agreed upon price set in the menu.
restaurants have tried this, all the servers quit. It is the servers who are forcing tips on us because they make way more money than they would on wages.
Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
restaurants have tried this, all the servers quit. It is the servers who are forcing tips on us because they make way more money than they would on wages.
Did they try paying fair wages? Because in your scenario, they were obviously paid less than they were before.
Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, for some people the current situation works great. But for plenty of others, the current situation sees them being exploited and payed less than minimum wage. It isnt a rare few either. I'm not okay with a situation where a large group is being exploited below the poverty line, just because it works out better for another large group.
Nobody gets paid less than minimum wage. The employer needs to make up that difference if tips don’t cover it.
Personally, I don't believe that at all. I do conceed that, if this were the case, things would be fine.
Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants
#125Yes, you can trace tipping back to demeaning pre-enlightenment service worker dynamics. But you can do that with almost anything. Talk to a socialist Google worker about the morality of their $350k comp package. As I have learned the hard way trying to convince a local polity that zoning is fundamentally racist (it is), to confront a system you have to address what it is today, not what it was historically.
And yes, tipping is widely abused, especially in the fast-casual and low-mid casual segments of the market. You want to set a N0% plus-up over minimum wage on front of the house jobs? I'm here for it. We're going to put a lot of restaurants out of business together with this plan --- the most abusive sectors of the restaurant business operate on the knife's edge of profitability --- but maybe that's for the best.
In high-end casual and fine dining, though, tipping has nothing to do with master-serf relationships, or really any kind of exploitation. A fine dining server's comp package looks a lot like that of a sales account manager: an untenably low base with a variable comp package on top. The reasons are the same in both cases: because of principal-agent problems. A flat salary for servers (the "living wage" system) breaks incentives: if you're going to make the same money whether the restaurant is packed or empty, why would you ever want to work a Friday? Put differently: tipping gives service staff exposure to the gross upside of the business, and aligns that exposure to the server's own agency in the business --- managing the customer relationship, monitoring the products being delivered from the back of the house.
This is part of the reason that expert servers quit when fine dining restaurants try to flip to no-tipping models.
People complain about how manipulative or stressful tipping is. I think that's pure applesauce. Divide the check by 10 and multiply by two. Or double the sales tax. Your check probably has the 15-20% line figured out for you already. You go into an American restaurant knowing you're on the hook for the tip, like adults in America have done for generations. If it's a scam to fool you into thinking prices are lower than they are, we've all had more than enough time to metabolize and work around it.
Tipping subsidizes owners. But everything you spend in a restaurant subsidizes owners. You're where all the revenue in this industry comes from.
This not the system I would design if I was the Pope of Chili Town. But it's not the moral calamity nerds like us make it out to be, either.
Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants
#126I hate tipping. The last think I want to do after eating is math. And don’t get me started on the inefficient payment ritual we have to endure: flag down the waiter for the check, wait for the check, wait for them to take your cc, wait for them to ring it up and bring it back, then do some math. Unnecessary. That said, minimum wage is minimum wage. If an employee doesn’t make that up in tips, the law is that the rest…
Ok but, do you tip? Or, you hate tipping so you just don't do it?
Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, for some people the current situation works great. But for plenty of others, the current situation sees them being exploited and payed less than minimum wage. It isnt a rare few either. I'm not okay with a situation where a large group is being exploited below the poverty line, just because it works out better for another large group.
Nobody gets paid less than minimum wage. The employer needs to make up that difference if tips don’t cover it.
Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants
#128I hate tipping. The last think I want to do after eating is math. And don’t get me started on the inefficient payment ritual we have to endure: flag down the waiter for the check, wait for the check, wait for them to take your cc, wait for them to ring it up and bring it back, then do some math. Unnecessary. That said, minimum wage is minimum wage. If an employee doesn’t make that up in tips, the law is that the rest…
Wage theft is rampant. Something like $10-20 billion a year in the US.
It also muddies the waters around tipped minimum wage and minimum wage in unhelpful ways. You can see many people in this thread are confused about it.
A more helpful thesis would be tipping leads to wage theft which is bad.
Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
As an American, may I suggest you Europeans start a social media movement to boycott all businesses in Europe which have that tip screen on their card terminals, before the cancer solidifies its foothold in your home? We won't get rid of tipping here until we get a superdepression for a number of years and no restaraunt operates anymore because literally nobody can afford it.
Tipping has existed for decades, just not on the level as the US. It hasn't become a cancer.
Re: Tipping: How Gratuity Replaced Fair Wages in U.S. Restaurants
#130I hate tipping. The last think I want to do after eating is math. And don’t get me started on the inefficient payment ritual we have to endure: flag down the waiter for the check, wait for the check, wait for them to take your cc, wait for them to ring it up and bring it back, then do some math. Unnecessary. That said, minimum wage is minimum wage. If an employee doesn’t make that up in tips, the law is that the rest…
Tipping is a disgusting practice of making others into servants. It goes like this: I have lots of money, you do not. if you wait on me hand and foot in just the right way and if I like it just right I might give you some money. Or not. But you have to dance to find out. Utterly disgusting, and of course it is normal in a country with severe income disparity - people who have so much money they can waive it around to…
> there are laws in place forcing the employer to pay a certain amount for a given amount of work. Not so with tipping.
The laws apply a minimum pay to a fixed amount of time working. Not an amount of work. If you do 2x the amount of work as a coworker in the same amount of time, you will be paid the same.
I think you might also be confusing tipped minimum wage with actual minimum wage, and I think the article did no one any favors there.