Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Samwers Clone Stripe

paymill.de

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 167 posts

Re: Samwers Clone Stripe

#121

Post by Luc »

rmoriz wrote: post #66
white_devil wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the popular direct debit payments can be charged back very easily + you just have to search for an valid account number (= fraud). This sounds highly doubtful. Care to explain?

in Germany, direct debit transcation currently need an account number and a bank id (BLZ). Or BIC/IBAN (see Wikipedia). There is no validation except some nummerical tests. You can enter the number of some charity or your landlord when doing an order at e.g. Amazon. To deal with that risk, every bank account holder has the right to chargeback transactions without giving a reason. That's why banks typically keep a lot…

> There is no validation except some nummerical tests. You can enter the number of some charity or your landlord when doing an order at e.g. Amazon.

That is... simply not true. Or perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are saying. There isn't a bank in the EU that will allow you to make a transfer from an account that's not yours (authenticated by whatever means - card readers, digipass, RSA keychain gadgets that display a new number sequence every minute, etc.).

Re: Samwers Clone Stripe

#122

Post by stef25 »

mbesto wrote: post #49
stef25 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The founders don't have the local knowledge and contacts to get through the regulatory hoops involved in launching a new payment gateway in dozens of countries With the millions of dollars these companies get from investors you'd think they could hire local knowledge to figure it out for them.

And how do these founders know/trust local knowledge? Imagine trying to deal with an Eastern European market or Middle Eastern market, where bribes ("legal" and illegal) are necessary. How do you know you're not getting ripped off?

Hire lawyers and consultants that decide that for them.

Re: Samwers Clone Stripe

#125

Post by mbesto »

matthewowen wrote: post #81
mbesto wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how do these founders know/trust local knowledge? Imagine trying to deal with an Eastern European market or Middle Eastern market, where bribes ("legal" and illegal) are necessary. How do you know you're not getting ripped off?

But this clone is in Germany. The fact that some countries are difficult to do business in doesn't mean that all countries outside the USA are difficult to do business in.

I wasn't talking about just Germany. The OP's point was - why can't they just throw money at any country.

Re: Samwers Clone Stripe

#126

Post by mbesto »

itsprofitbaron wrote: post #54
mbesto wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Groupon took your advice and (in my opinion) has contributed to their poor numbers. The problem is that when an established US company looks to expand, those countries tend to put a premium on expansion there. For example, if Groupon expands to the UK, sales people will ask for more money up front and put a premium on "acting faster". Oh, and pretty much what everyone else mentioned... It's extremely difficult for an…

Groupon makes more revenue outside North America than it does within it (in Q2: $308MM for international; $260MM for N.A. on a total customer base of 38MM users) Groupon already has a presence in the UK, its international expansion particularly in europe was helped via an acquistion of another Samwer Brothers company MyCityDeal.de which became Groupon.co.uk, Groupon.de etc. The reason Groupon is only growing 31% in E…

And what were all of the costs associated with expanding to the UK? What's the ROI of simply setting up shop vs buying a company outright?

> the merchants aren't getting the same value

Groupon (much to the OP's point) is like every mindless American out there who thinks that you can simply copy and paste an American business model into any part of the world. The world does not simply work this way, but we (Americans) are brought up to think so.

Re: Samwers Clone Stripe

#127

Post by kimmiller »

Ecio78 wrote: post #70
niyazpk wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are vastly underestimating the effort required in setting up a payment gateway in a country.

But if you are Stripe and you get millions in investments ( i.e. http://techcrunch.com/2012/07/09/sexy-payments-startup-strip... ) you can afford to hire specific european nation experts, lawyers etc.. to get into these markets quickly

You're underestimating bandwidth. You can't buy time, it's just not that easy. If it were, every start-up that raises millions would do it.

Hell, every listed company in the world would be global.

Re: Samwers Clone Stripe

#128

Post by kimmiller »

runako wrote: post #117
Gring wrote: post #28

I don't get it. Why do US net startups very often make the same mistake of not expanding into the whole world quickly? It took eBay something like 4 years to go to Germany, by which time there was a local clone there that proved to be uncatchable. The expensive result was that eBay had to buy the clone (Alando) for 43 million dollars to become relevant. Kickstarter is still US-only. Stripe as well. So are countless o…

Some suggested reasons, to add to the others cited: 0. You're obviously speaking mostly about startups that primarily interface with moving money or physical goods. Regulations and infrastructure in these areas are not insignificant operations. US startups working outside these areas (e.g. Facebook, Zynga, Stack Overflow) don't stop at US borders. - Each market has its own customs, language, and tone. Marketing into…

To add to this list:

- Being a market leader in your home market is much more important (and usually cost effective) than growing internationally. Stripe still has a huge way to go in terms of 'crossing the chasm' in the US, moving out of SV bubble and in to the main-stream.

- Geographical acquisitions when expanding globally aren't necessarily a negative. Although they feel dirty, a lot of the time they can be a win/win for both players (quick foothold in the market, market leading position, entry certainty, local hires etc).

Re: Samwers Clone Stripe

#129

Post by naz »

kanamekun wrote: post #98
Gring wrote: post #28

I don't get it. Why do US net startups very often make the same mistake of not expanding into the whole world quickly? It took eBay something like 4 years to go to Germany, by which time there was a local clone there that proved to be uncatchable. The expensive result was that eBay had to buy the clone (Alando) for 43 million dollars to become relevant. Kickstarter is still US-only. Stripe as well. So are countless o…

Kickstarter is US-only because Amazon Payments is US-only (well at least, they only denominate payments in dollars). Kickstarter's payment needs are pretty different from other crowdfunding sites, as the credit card is authed right away... but not charged until the project is funded AND the deadline is reached (up to 60 days). There are very few payment vendors that will hold a conditional credit card charge like tha…

> the credit card is authed right away... but not charged until the project is funded AND the deadline is reached (up to 60 days).

Do you have a reference for this? I'm under the impression they only charge the cards once the funding goal is reached. Amex in particular only allows pre-authorizations to last up to a week.

Re: Samwers Clone Stripe

#130

Post by mmcnickle »

andygcook wrote: post #95
mmcnickle wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The founders don't have the local knowledge and contacts to get through the regulatory hoops involved in launching a new payment gateway in dozens of countries. I think there was an article on HN where someone was talking about how these kinds of startups (the ones with difficult regulatory barriers) are the only ones that you should consider cloning in other countries for this very reason.

I think this is the article you are referencing: http://bernardi.me/2012/06/startup-copycats-youre-doing-it-w... And the original HN comment thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4091462 Interestingly enough the first startup the author suggests should be cloned is Stripe.

That's the one, thank you for digging it out.
Post reply on HN