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NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

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Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#121

Post by pseudalopex »

tehjoker wrote: post #64
sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

Resigning sends a signal to the people under you and outside the organization that fighting back is ok. Staying sends the message that things are ok enough.

Resigning sends a message fighting back is futile. A praising and grateful resignation letter sends a message things are OK. Staying sends different messages depending on words and actions.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#122

Post by AcerbicZero »

ziddoap wrote: post #13
sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

> I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. Can you give me some examples of how you would fight? Boss comes in (or whoever more powerful than me, e.g. someone acting on the president's orders), says something with the gist of "Do this, or get fired". What are the next steps that I can take that won't get me fired, but also count as fighting back?

If you're in a hierarchical structure and someone higher up gives you an ultimatum, your choices are: comply, resist and face consequences, or find subversive, incremental ways to undermine it. None of those are cost-free.

"Fighting" isn't about magic moves that keep everything safe. It's about choosing when and how to accept the risks. Expecting a fight with no threat to your position is cowardice disguised as pragmatism.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#123

Post by crummy »

AcerbicZero wrote: post #120
sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

You're getting a lot of pushback, but this resonates with me. I guess I have a hard time understanding the value in a "noble departure" rather than just going down swinging. If a shark was eating me, I wouldn't say "welp I'm boned, better just resign from life". I'd punch the shark, until that shark had to fire me from life. Maybe from a PR perspective its somehow better? Idk, I don't see it.

Historically, 'this decision is so outrageous that three important people have resigned' has been a powerful brake on outrageous decisions.

That has stopped being the case recently, for whatever reason.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#124

Post by lesuorac »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #21
sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

The options you have: A) disagree and commit B) disagree and wait to be fired C) appear to commit, but secretly subvert your (elected) boss's plans/intentions I use the word 'boss' here because the president has the right to hire and fire for this role: SEC. 5. 42 U.S.C. 1864 (a) The Director of the Foundation (referred to in this Act as the ‘‘Director’’) shall be appointed by the President by and with the advice and…

Is it disagree and commit?

NSF is an "independent agency" [1] so if the job you were appointed to an confirmed by congress (senate) is at odds with the presidents desires I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a problem for the president not you.

Similar to all those inspector generals who just gave up when they were illegally fired. Literally your job is to prevent the president from corruption, how are you going to do that now?

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_agencies_of_the_Un...

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#125

Post by ScoobleDoodle »

justin66 wrote: post #103
ScoobleDoodle wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Comply in a maximally obstructive way. > Doesn't apply, the whole point is that the executive wants to obstruct things, and that's what we're talking about fighting against. "Obstructive" in this scenario results in the organization keeping functioning effectively. Obstructive of something destructive allows it to keep existing.

> Obstructive of something destructive allows it to keep existing. Right, but with whose money?

I'm pointing out a definitional misunderstanding. It's was a double negative misinterpreted as a single negative.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#126

Post by pyuser583 »

rchaud wrote: post #73
bananapub wrote: post #15

Pretty distressing at how there’s basically zero pushback from the American elites at the destruction of all strategic American advantages and only ineffective pushback from the public. There will be entire genres of books written about how America just said “eh” to being gutted by a bunch of rich psychopaths.

American elites push back when their tax shelters and uninsured deposits (see Silicon Valley Bank collapse) are at risk. That's their line in the sand.

The US government has been systematically destroying all the tax shelters.

Switzerland, Cayman Islands, etc now report to the IRS.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#127

Post by 9283409232 »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #108
9283409232 wrote: post #84

> And NSF said pending proposals that appeared to violate any of Trump’s executive orders—in particular those banning efforts to increase diversity in the scientific workforce, foster environmental justice, and study the spread of misinformation on social media sites—would be returned for “mitigation.” Basically don't study how Elon's websites are destroying the fabric of society or how Trump's policies will destroy…

Oh, it's a good deal worse than that. The NSF actually has a statutory mandate to ask for those Broader Impact sections; Congress would have to pass a law to stop it. So now the people applying for grants need to include, by law, a section that, by policy, will get the grant application returned for editing and "mitigation", while the Administration is also ordering, again without Congressional authority, that one ou…

> while the Administration is also ordering, again without Congressional authority

Trump is doing a lot of illegal things. Like, A LOT of illegal things, but if you read the article they specifically said that Trump officials said they were only going to ask for Congress for 55% of the current budget in the next years budget cycle so they are actually doing this one correctly.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#128

Post by mlsu »

jimbokun wrote: post #87
bananapub wrote: post #15

Pretty distressing at how there’s basically zero pushback from the American elites at the destruction of all strategic American advantages and only ineffective pushback from the public. There will be entire genres of books written about how America just said “eh” to being gutted by a bunch of rich psychopaths.

Two failed impeachment attempts, countless lawsuits, and now the Supreme Court has more or less inoculated Trump from any further prosecution attempts. The checks and balances have all been exhausted. There are no bullets left in the gun.

Lots of everyday people have a tremendous amount of power. C-suite executives for example.

The concrete example of this is Harvard and some of the big law firms (Jenner & Block and WilmerHale). That is what resistance looks like now.

Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison is an example of an entity that should have resisted, but folded instead.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of the C-suite at big US corporations do not quite realize this about their position. They think that it's not their job; either that they keep their head down and the lawyers and politicians will take care of it, or something far worse, that the system has already fallen so may as well try to make concessions and go along to get along.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#129

Post by BLKNSLVR »

sathackr wrote: post #36
patrickdavey wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mental health perhaps? If the administration is making the organisations job impossible it could be an incredibly awful time to stay. I don't believe I owe anyone my sanity.

yea that seems to be a common theme with people. Nothing is bigger than them or more important than their own personal mental health. I can't take it myself so I'm just going to roll over and not stand for any principle or fight for any cause because that's just too much for me to handle. And besides you're just one person so what difference is it going to make anyways. Same thing why people don't vote. It's not like…

You obviously haven't been through a bad employment situation.

Consider yourself lucky.

And, to be honest, there is almost literally nothing more important than ones own personal mental health. Almost everything someone is able to achieve is built upon a foundation of their mental health. If the foundation is shaky, so will be the building.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#130

Post by Larrikin »

rockemsockem wrote: post #89
9283409232 wrote: post #84

> And NSF said pending proposals that appeared to violate any of Trump’s executive orders—in particular those banning efforts to increase diversity in the scientific workforce, foster environmental justice, and study the spread of misinformation on social media sites—would be returned for “mitigation.” Basically don't study how Elon's websites are destroying the fabric of society or how Trump's policies will destroy…

The site formally known as Twitter is destroying the fabric of society, really? Do you hear yourself?

This is probably a bad faith sarcastic comment, but for others

Pretending social media holds no influence on society was an argument you could have made when it was just kids getting into fights or shooting each other over Internet beef fifteen years ago.

Now it's an essential target in governments all over the world when it comes to spreading propaganda/disinformation. It has a direct link to effecting change in voters and entire governments innumerable times now.

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