Native visionOS platform support • Hacker News Board

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#121

Post by pjmlp » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 9:08 AM UTC

andsoitis wrote: post #103

Hamuko wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who is going to bother doing all the extra work to port their game for Mac?! So far at least Ubisoft, CAPCOM, Remedy, Kojima Productions and Hello Games.

And for additional context, when it comes to Vision Pro, Ubisoft has one game that is designed with it in mind (Rabbids: Legends of the Multiverse) and CAPCOM has none. That should tell us something about the appetite to support visionOS.

Most companies don't support visionOS because it is a 3000 euros/dollar device, that really has to sell a lot of games.

Additionally many developers are not porting their games to visionOS as protest to existing store percentages, nothing to do with Metal support.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#122

Post by StrLght » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 9:09 AM UTC

andsoitis wrote: post #83

dagmx wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay? That still doesn’t mitigate the need for this specific PR first though to even get to that discussion point. That line you mention is not part of the contents of this PR.

A good partner discusses startegy and shared interest first, negotiates terms of engagement, tradeoffs, shared roadmaps, etc. Instead we get a pretty arrogant and presumptive interaction from the Apple crew. It should be noted that Apple is struggling with visionOS and Pro adoption amongst consumers and developers, so their arrogance is unwarranted and they cannot rely on market power.

How is it arrogant? What should they do instead?

It feels like we're reading different discussions. All I see is Apple engineers addressing every raised concern.

Getting angry at companies for contributing to OSS is not the hill to die on. If it is -- I can't even imagine your feelings towards Intel, AMD, Qualcomm, Google, etc. for their contributions to Linux.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#123

Post by jsheard » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 9:13 AM UTC

ykl wrote: post #120

tormeh wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my impression that the WebGPU spec design team went to extreme lengths to accommodate Apple's wishes, and Apple in turn does not even support WebGPU in Safari. Why not express vitriol? Apple does not seem to act in good faith.

WebGPU works just fine in Safari on my iPhone. It was enabled by default starting with iOS 18.2.

https://caniuse.com/webgpu

Caniuse says it's still behind a feature flag, are you sure you didn't enable that at some point?

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#124

Post by willtemperley » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 9:13 AM UTC

tormeh wrote: post #113

willtemperley wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hell would freeze over before Apple conformed and contributed to an existing open standard. Why the vitriol? Apple did in fact initiate and co-create the WebGPU standard [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGPU Edit to include quote of parent comment.

It's my impression that the WebGPU spec design team went to extreme lengths to accommodate Apple's wishes, and Apple in turn does not even support WebGPU in Safari. Why not express vitriol? Apple does not seem to act in good faith.

Because getting angry about things that are false is insane.

WebGPU is still in progress in Safari - it is available as a technology preview. The same is true for Firefox.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#125

Post by latexr » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 9:14 AM UTC

DecentShoes wrote: post #104

josephg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hell would freeze over before Apple conformed and contributed to an existing open standard. Better get some blankets because Apple has made significant contributions to many open standards - for example, USB-C. And, back in the day, OpenGL. Its a mistake to think of a large company like apple as if it were a person, with their own goals and ideas. Apple is just too big for that. I mean, they have 164,000 staff. Tha…

>Apple has made significant contributions to many open standards - for example, USB-C. And then refused to use it until the EU forced them

USB-C has been in use on MacBooks for at least a decade.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#126

Post by raverbashing » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 9:20 AM UTC

Jeez, some people are just insufferable

I'm glad some people like https://github.com/godotengine/godot/pull/105628#issuecommen... exists

"why this is not an extension" sounds like an awfully naive question. I'm not a Godot expert but I'd bet a very large amount of money that this is not in the realm of a simple extension, as flexible as Godot can be (and a check of the PR seems to confirm this)

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#127

Post by dan_can_code » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 9:20 AM UTC

latexr wrote: post #125

DecentShoes wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple has made significant contributions to many open standards - for example, USB-C. And then refused to use it until the EU forced them

USB-C has been in use on MacBooks for at least a decade.

Thank god they brought back MagSafe charging recently.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#128

Post by troupo » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 9:20 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #118

troupo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's why we're concerned when they abandon standards Is DirectX a standard? Is Playstation NDK (or whatever it's called) a standard? Vulkan is not a "standard". It's a designed-by-committee API that arrived on the scene years after "non-standard" APIs.

NVN on the Switch, PlayStation has two APIs, one high level and one low level one, LibGNMX and LibGNM respectively.

For some reason I can never remember those names :)

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#129

Post by ykl » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 9:27 AM UTC

jsheard wrote: post #123

ykl wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebGPU works just fine in Safari on my iPhone. It was enabled by default starting with iOS 18.2.

https://caniuse.com/webgpu Caniuse says it's still behind a feature flag, are you sure you didn't enable that at some point?

I don’t recall enabling it.

Re: Native visionOS platform support

#130

Post by jsheard » Wed, Apr 23, 2025, 9:27 AM UTC

willtemperley wrote: post #124

tormeh wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my impression that the WebGPU spec design team went to extreme lengths to accommodate Apple's wishes, and Apple in turn does not even support WebGPU in Safari. Why not express vitriol? Apple does not seem to act in good faith.

Because getting angry about things that are false is insane. WebGPU is still in progress in Safari - it is available as a technology preview. The same is true for Firefox.

> WebGPU is still in progress in Safari

That's kind of the point, Chrome shipped it across multiple platforms two years ago, while Safari still has no timeframe despite having a much narrower set of APIs and hardware to support. Firefox at least has the excuse of needing broad compatibility like Chrome but with a fraction of the development resources. Apple are just dragging their feet.