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After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

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Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#121

Post by icameron »

sollewitt wrote: post #57
jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

A beloved Terry Pratchett character defines evil as when you treat people like things.

Jackie Treehorn treats object like women, man!

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#122

Post by [deleted] »

furyofantares wrote: post #51
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's either an actual 'coding error' because DOGE doesn't actually understand WTF they're doing or it's what you're suggesting. So it's Incompetence or Malice. Pick your poison.

It's 2025. Never attribute to incompetence or malice that which can adequately be explained by both.

[deleted]

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#123

Post by rexpop »

somenameforme wrote: post #106

Do people just want to rage? Because a lot of what is being said here, and even the article's headline are not supported by what the article says. In particular: - The workers were never fired. They were put on paid leave. - They were fully reinstated less than 24 hours after it became clear a mistake had been made. - The headline is also misleading. The reason for the firing was 'based on administrative codes that “…

If only were an isolated incident, and not the latest in a long train of abuses and usurpations.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#124

Post by Terr_ »

furyofantares wrote: post #51
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's either an actual 'coding error' because DOGE doesn't actually understand WTF they're doing or it's what you're suggesting. So it's Incompetence or Malice. Pick your poison.

It's 2025. Never attribute to incompetence or malice that which can adequately be explained by both.

At this point the onus is on them for pleading their offenses as just incompetence or just malice.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#125

Post by mr_mitm »

stikit wrote: post #65
jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

it works both ways. People quit without any notice all the time, and you can be fired for no reason and without notice. It’s not inhumane, it’s life. Your employer doesn’t owe you a job for life, and you don’t commit to your job for life.

That's actually not life in a lot of countries that aren't the United States. It's not a law of nature that you can be fired for no reason and no notice. We as a society make these laws.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#126

Post by stonogo »

somenameforme wrote: post #106

Do people just want to rage? Because a lot of what is being said here, and even the article's headline are not supported by what the article says. In particular: - The workers were never fired. They were put on paid leave. - They were fully reinstated less than 24 hours after it became clear a mistake had been made. - The headline is also misleading. The reason for the firing was 'based on administrative codes that “…

You're not getting downvoted because "people don't want facts" but because your list is misleadingly incomplete or, in some instances, wrong.

- The workers were put on paid leave pending termination, for procedural reasons (they could not legally be fired immediately).

- Only ten were reinstated, and nobody knows why. The agency that reinstated them (NINDS) is not the same agency that issued the firing (HHS directly)

- The staff in question were explicitly told a "computer error" (quotes as such in the article) led to their termination notices.

This is not how a functioning management system works. It's also not an effective way to operate a government research program. There's no hyperbole here; it's just bad work.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#127

Post by somenameforme »

rexpop wrote: post #123
somenameforme wrote: post #106

Do people just want to rage? Because a lot of what is being said here, and even the article's headline are not supported by what the article says. In particular: - The workers were never fired. They were put on paid leave. - They were fully reinstated less than 24 hours after it became clear a mistake had been made. - The headline is also misleading. The reason for the firing was 'based on administrative codes that “…

If only were an isolated incident, and not the latest in a long train of abuses and usurpations.

Except it's the same in literally all of these articles. Some relatively minor mistake is taken and blown up into some huge degree of maliciousness or unprecedented incompetence. People then 'social mediaize' it all by taking it at face value, and then getting each other even more riled up - exactly like a mob.

It's easy to see where this is coming from because each writer of these sort of articles likely had colleagues and/or friends who were intentionally terminated, and so they're writing with a tremendous chip on their shoulder. But they're doing a disservice to themselves because anybody who is not particularly upset by these changes is going to completely eyeroll each time another one of these articles appears, and those who are genuinely upset are increasingly living in a world detached from reality.

The end result is of course conflict and confrontation, which I suppose is the point. But I don't think this is something anybody would have ever wanted if we imagine how things might look in hindsight, before we get there.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#128

Post by mulmen »

jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

I largely agree with your take here but it still seems to assume that government spending is wasteful. From what I can see government spending is actually pretty efficient and held to a very high standard of accountability.

On the other hand corporate America has a terrible track record. We have Boeing and GM who exist only because the government keeps bailing them out to prevent economic ruin. Look me in the eye and tell me Sears was an efficient operation.

How many of us look at our cloud spend and think to ourselves “I’m certain we haven’t wasted a penny.”

Look at all the VC money that was lit on fire to do food delivery and taxi dispatch. It works now but I can’t say that was financially efficient and it still isn’t affordable. DoorDash provides worse service for more money than a teenager with a used Corolla left to their own devices.

Waste is everywhere but I’m really not convinced the government is the worst or even particularly bad.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#130

Post by vintermann »

Terr_ wrote: post #80
jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

Also, it's completely destroying an incredibly valuable asset: The reputation of being a stable long-term employer! (This is possibly their corrupt intent.) The immediate "savings" reduced workforce (even assuming the same level of work gets done) can easily be obliterated by the long-term damage of needing to pay more to attract equally-qualified applicants away from the private sector. Some quick napkin-math just t…

If a corporation did this, we'd rightly accuse them of pumping their quarterly numbers at the expense of long-term viability.
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