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Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

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Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can imagine a useful EV without lidar (my ICE vehicles certainly don't have one). I cannot imagine a useful EV without a battery.

Tesla’s valuation isn’t based on their ability to make a BEV.

Isn't it? Seems to be what they do.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#122

The other comment pointing this out has been (ridiculously) flagged, so I'll repeat the point that was made: The analysis is useless if it doesn't account for the base rate fallacy ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_rate_fallacy ) The first thing I thought before even reading the analysis was "Does the author account for it?" And indeed he makes no mention that he did. So after reading the whole article I have no…

The base rate was discussed early in the article, but not by that name:

> It’s not just that self-driving cars in general are dangerous for motorcycles, either: this problem is unique to Tesla. Not a single other automobile manufacturer or ADAS self-driving technology provider reported a single motorcycle fatality in the same time frame.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#123
post #66
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without knowing how many FSD miles Teslas have done compared to other brands, it's hard to judge. It could just be that Tesla owners are far more likely to trust and use their cars FSD capabilities, and thus end up in more FSD accidents. Other brands might have so bad FSD that people simply not trust it and basically never use it, and thus never get into an FSD accident.

I don’t see any way you can spin this in a positive light. Yeah, there may be many more FSD miles on Tesla, but if that leads to a bunch of motorcyclists getting hit, then maybe that’s exactly the problem. We know this is one of the core issues of Tesla FSD: its capabilities have been hyped and over promised time and time again. We have countless examples of drivers trusting it far more than they should. And who’s to…

The problem is there isn't enough data here. Killing 5 motorcycles isn't great, but if human driver killed say 100 in the same sample, 5 is actually pretty good. Of course if human drivers kill 1 or 2 in the same sample, 5 is really bad.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#124
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but vision quality is not really a major source of human accidents. Never driven before?

I've driven before, and agree with the OP. Now what?

let's experiment. i'll reduce your vision quality, then you try driving

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#126
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have more than 100 years of proof that visual detection works quite well. The problem is that we don't have certification process before a tech is deployed on the streets - your AV must pass this and this tests before you are allowed to use it. We don't care how you got there lidar, gps/astrology, camera/ai are all ok as long as you pass

> We have more than 100 years of proof What are you talking about specifically?

I think they mean that because people have been driving automobiles for over 100 years and that proves (somehow) that visual detection works for identifying hazards on the road.

But they seem to be conflating human vision with computer vision.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#127

The point I soured on Musk was when he ditched radar/lidar and tried to go with camera's alone. This made me realize he is not the genius he is made out to be but instead he is a fraud/charlatan and over the years his statements on different topics have only hardened that belief. Why the fuck would you want ai cars to be the same as humans you should want them to be many times better and radarr/lidar sonarr type tech…

Multiple independent sensor streams is like having multiple pilots fly a plane instead of just one pilot. The chance of a fatal error (false negative identification of an object near the car) decreases from p to p^n. The size of that decrease is not intuitive: if p=0.0001 it now becomes a much smaller number with the introduction of a second pilot or second independent sensor stream (0.0001^2). Now the errors are not…

I dunno because I'm pretty sure that each sense a person loses increases their risk of mortality. If what you are saying is true, then shouldn't we all be better off wearing blinders, a clothespin over our noses, and rely on echolocation?

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#129

The point I soured on Musk was when he ditched radar/lidar and tried to go with camera's alone. This made me realize he is not the genius he is made out to be but instead he is a fraud/charlatan and over the years his statements on different topics have only hardened that belief. Why the fuck would you want ai cars to be the same as humans you should want them to be many times better and radarr/lidar sonarr type tech…

> The point I soured on Musk was when he ditched radar/lidar and tried to go with camera's alone. This made me realize he is not the genius he is made out to be but instead he is a fraud/charlatan and over the years his statements on different topics have only hardened that belief.

Yeah, he was arguably wrong about one thing so his building both the world's leading EV company and the world's leading private rocket company was fake.

As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Between Tesla, SpaceX, and arguably now xAI, the probability of Musk's genius being a fluke or fraud is close to zero.

Re: Self-Driving Teslas Are Fatally Rear-Ending Motorcyclists More Than Any Other

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> instead he is a fraud/charlatan and... Just see him talking about things at NeuraLink. Musk wouldn't exist if it weren't for the people working for him. It's a clown that made it to the top in a very dubious way.

Not dubious. He was rich to begin with and used that wealth to make more.

Yes, though he wouldn't be relevant if people didn't believe he is a genius.
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