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The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

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Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#121

Post by johnnyanmac »

INTPenis wrote: post #12
paxys wrote: post #9

Does that mean it can run Steam games offline and DRM-free?

You can run steam games offline on a regular PC. But I think you're trying to make a point about Steam DRM. Someone once said; there are two DRMs that everyone loves, Apple and Steam. And I have to say it's true. I am normally not a proponent of DRM, I've been pirating since TURBO 250 tapes on c64, but I do love Steam. I love it for what Gabe has done for us gamers on Linux. In my opinion he deserves 30%.

I still don't love it. DRM is DRM and I've watched enough heroes fall from grace to know it's onto a matter of when they yank your chain, not if. I will avoid to the best of my ability any attempts to retract back products I purchased myself.

That's why I wanted to stick to consoles and a physical medium. But even those have devolved into what's basically a digital download, now with the disk (or cartridge now, with Switch 2) being the DRM. The Onion couldn't write a more ironic headline.

Now I'm wondering if all that "virtual sharing" stuff for switch 2 cartridges means difficulties with the used market.

>In my opinion he deserves 30%.

Even Gabe doesn't agree, given the cut he gives to AAA publishers. I'm not exactly onboard with the idea that the richest people get the best tax breaks, even in video game world.

A progressive platform cut would be much friendlier to smaller devs and put the biggest burdens on the ones likely using the most amount of bandwidth. That's how the game engines have started to leverage their tooling. And they put a lot more work in than a hosting platform

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#122

Post by johnnyanmac »

INTPenis wrote: post #109
butlike wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about the 30%, it's about giving you the ball for $3.30 then taking the ball away sometime later saying you can no longer play with it and no, there won't be any refunds.

Playing devil's advocate here but I've had a Steam account for well over 15 years now and my library of games has only grown. I am sure there are stories and certain situations where people have lost access to games, but I think they're fringe cases.

And they are fringe cases with most DRM, since most of any of my libraries still exist if I check it.

But people seem so Gung ho about DRM being bad. except for Steam.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#123

Post by johnnyanmac »

lawn wrote: post #53
paradite wrote: post #20

I might be missing the point of the author, but what's the difference between Steam Deck and a normal Windows gaming laptop in terms of software freedom? Wouldn't you have more software freedom on Windows? Because you can run both Windows and Linux software (via WSL2). I use macOS, Windows and Linux daily. They are all pretty open to installing and running your own software. And all of them have some sort of security…

You can install Windows on the Steam Deck if you want. But calling Windows more free than Linux because you can virtualize Linux is a noteworthy statement alright.

That's the exact argument people make on the Steam deck vs Nintendo. "but you can emulate switch games!"

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#124

Post by johnnyanmac »

michaelsshaw wrote: post #71
LightHugger wrote: post #45

> Some people have criticized that their company culture of libertarianism sometimes takes precedence over other important values including equity and inclusion. To push for equity is to discriminate and dehumanize people, so it's certainly good that valve does not put this value ahead of anything else let alone allow them to take precedence over taking care of their customer base. They are perfectly inclusive as wel…

It's crazy that, according to people like you, we've always been doing merit-based hiring and still the computer workforce is disproportionately white and male. Nothing fishy there at all.

Tbf if your graduating class is 89% male, and your declared tech majors are 80% male, the issue isn't necessarily on the workforce. It's clear we need to start much earlier in exposing tech to potential other audiences.

But the US hates teachers (and now, education Nas a whole) and can't think long term anymore. So these are merely pipe dreams as of now.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#125

Post by johnnyanmac »

glenstein wrote: post #73
johnnyanmac wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So, according to some people, the fact that there were fewer Steam Machines than PlayStations in the world meant that the project as a whole was a failure. I mean, there's no metric short nor long term where we call the steam machines a success. It was an experiment and some neat tech (hardware and software) came out of it. Valve is still a business at the end of the day. But yes, a business that can salvage the goo…

Breaking the seal and demonstrating the capabilities, and getting it into the hands of consumers set the conditions for the Steam Deck's success. The Steam Deck exists because the Steam Machine existed, and it's in this context that the Steam Machine succeeded. You don't need overnight instant success for the program itself to succeed.

Dark souls exists because Demons Soul existed. But if you ask Sony or even FromSoft, they'd never say Demons Soul was a success. It just didn't bomb so dosasteroisly as to prematurely cancel an entire sub-genre.

You can have disappointments and even failures while Also admitting they lead to successes by not giving up. That was all I was saying.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#126

Post by lolinder »

protimewaster wrote: post #107
lolinder wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They’re not saints, especially with the games distribution platform monopoly they’re sitting on top of They got and have maintained that monopoly (I'll let others debate the merits of that wording) by being very very good to their users, which doesn't make the existence of the monopoly evidence that they aren't saints. If they were maintaining it through anticompetitive means, sure, but I've never seen anyone claim…

> If they were maintaining it through anticompetitive means, sure, but I've never seen anyone claim that they are They did get sued for having "anticompetitive restraints on pricing" and "Federal Judge John C. Coughenour ruled that those claims were credible and that Steam gamers can claim compensation for Valve's illegal monopoly, but gamers, unlike developers, must file individual arbitrations to do so." So, yes, i…

I did somehow miss this lawsuit, but this is an advertisement for the law firm, not actual documentation of the ruling, because the ruling hasn't been issued yet. The wording is very precise here: the judge ruled that those claims were credible and allowed the case to move forward. That is not the same thing as the judge siding with the plaintiffs.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#127

Post by droopyEyelids »

jerf wrote: post #57

I have a first-gen Switch, still in active rotation. My kids are asking me why we don't hack it. My answer has been, what does a hacked Switch do that my Steam Deck doesn't already do, without hacking? I mean, if you're going to sail the seven seas and yo-ho-ho, not that I've been encouraging that, the answer isn't even "Play Switch 1 games", the Steam Deck does that better too! And at least we can't accidentally hoo…

Local multiplayer on steam is borderline unusable.

A software engineer can (temporarily) get it working after hours of diagnosis.

Compare that to the switch.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#128

Post by paxys »

INTPenis wrote: post #12
paxys wrote: post #9

Does that mean it can run Steam games offline and DRM-free?

You can run steam games offline on a regular PC. But I think you're trying to make a point about Steam DRM. Someone once said; there are two DRMs that everyone loves, Apple and Steam. And I have to say it's true. I am normally not a proponent of DRM, I've been pirating since TURBO 250 tapes on c64, but I do love Steam. I love it for what Gabe has done for us gamers on Linux. In my opinion he deserves 30%.

It's perfectly fine to love Apple and Steam. They are both great companies and offer great products. The issue I have is in trying to extrapolate that love into labeling them pro-"software freedom", which is idiotic. Both these companies ship opaque binaries of their storefront and products. Their apps/games have restrictive DRM. You cannot install/register games without an account and internet access. They artifically limit resale/sharing/lending of digital goods. They are actively user hostile (such as not offering refunds until forced to by courts). Even the Steam Deck is full of proprietary blobs which would be illegal to revese engineer and reshare. Nothing about the experience is FOSS.

Again none of this is inherently bad if your argument is "I like the convenience and don't care about the restrictions". But don't delude yourself into thinking this is "freedom".

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#129

Post by johnnyanmac »

butlike wrote: post #80
johnnyanmac wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, when you wanna be evil, be evil to devs. They are stuck on two fronts and gamers are already pre-disposed to blame them for any problems anyway. >If they were maintaining it through anticompetitive Well we know they are now thanks to the lawsuits shedding light in the long known pricing parity clauses. Anyone asking "why isn't this game cheaper on Epic if take take a smaller cut" now has their answer. Without r…

Does Epic take a smaller cut for the store? I know it becomes exorbitant to lease their engine, UDK, since they take a percentage depending on the licensing contract you've signed.

Yes. 12% cut from Epic, and I believe certain UE fees are waived if you release on EGS.

For UDK: they did get a lot better with that for UE4/5. These days, the first million dollars in that project's revenue has no cut, and after that it's a 5% royalties (there's also mandatory $1850 subscription seats per year if you have over a million gross revenue a year).

It's about as indie friendly as you can be for such an everpresent tool.

Re: The Steam Deck is software-freedom friendly

#130

Post by johnnyanmac »

ziddoap wrote: post #102
johnnyanmac wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the existence of the largest games on the market's survival proof thst Steam doesn't own 90% marketshare? Do people remember what monopoly means? Do they think any small dev can be a COD competitor tomorrow? Btw, based on my friend Bazaar still has its own balance issues arising every other patch.

> Why is the existence of the largest games on the market's survival proof thst Steam doesn't own 90% marketshare? It's proof that what the parent commenter said, the portion I explicitly quoted, is an exaggeration. > Btw, based on my friend Bazaar still has its own balance issues arising every other patch. I mean, sure. Can you name any competitive game that doesn't have balance issues? I can't. What matters to me i…

It's an exaggeration in that sure, it literally exists. But at this point you're not really engaging in good faith if that's your argument. Can we not do that ?

>Can you name any competitive game that doesn't have balance issues?

Sure. But I'm not entirely sure Bazaar is stable enough yet to have the mood swings of Overwatch 2. That's the danger. Make too many fans angry in this beta stage and you lose all goodwill for the full launch.

I do empathize highly with the devs as someone who will try to do that song and dance themselves one day. But that's why I'm not only making my game with direct sales figures in mind.

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