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Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

unsw.edu.au

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Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#121

Post by chank »

arresin wrote: post #12
chank wrote: post #2

Over the years through my own involvement in sports and physically demaning jobs with trying a lot of different supplementation, I've come to the conclusion that most (if not all) supplements provide little to no value beyond a good diet. If they do, they're either illigal as non-perscription and/or require regular physician monitoring use correctly.

I don’t want to be rude but your anecdote (and all anecdotes like this on anything to do with health) is uninteresting and useless.

I don't want to be rude, but your off-topic anecdote about my uninteresting and useless anecdote is also... uninteresting and useless.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#122

Post by laszlojamf »

Nifty3929 wrote: post #104
laszlojamf wrote: post #4

The way I understood it creatine by itself doesn't promote muscle gain all that much. It's the fact that you can potentially do one to three more reps which does. But that still means you have to do the reps. https://leangains.com/supplements-you-might-actually-find-us...

From the actual study: https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/17/6/10812.3.4 . Resistance Training Program After the 7-day wash-in, both groups followed the same RT program that comprising 3 full-body sessions a week for 12 weeks (Supplementary Materials, Table S1). All sessions were supervised by tertiary qualified exercise physiologists and commenced with a standardised warm-up of dynamic flexibility exercises. Each sessio…

So they were asking beginner lifters to rate how many they would have left in the tank? I've been lifting for maybe half a year and I still find it pretty hard to estimate >.It's good that it's studied, but it does sound that they've "conclusively" proven something, and I'm not so sure. Small sample size too, like you said.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#123

Post by beezle »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #107

I tried creatine. Taking it in powder form mixed with my protein shake made me feel awful. Not worth it. Seemingly does nothing.

Don't take it on an empty stomach. Don't do the overload the first 10 days, instead stick to just 5g daily. It will take a little longer to get the full effect of the loading stage but with far less risk of stomach upset.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#124

Post by RealityVoid »

leereeves wrote: post #114
Nifty3929 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the actual study: https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/17/6/10812.3.4 . Resistance Training Program After the 7-day wash-in, both groups followed the same RT program that comprising 3 full-body sessions a week for 12 weeks (Supplementary Materials, Table S1). All sessions were supervised by tertiary qualified exercise physiologists and commenced with a standardised warm-up of dynamic flexibility exercises. Each sessio…

> When a RPE of 8 or lower was recorded, the external load (kg) was adjusted on successive sets to ensure that subjects achieved the target RM. The wording is a little technical. They're saying that, if the subject thought they could do at least 2 more reps at the end of this set, they increased the weight on the next set. So if creatine does allow people to do more reps at a given weight, subjects on creatine should…

If you can lift more reps, you can go to the next weight level. It's basically linear progression with a self-reported knob. My experience is that everytime I use creatine and start training after not training for like 3 weeks, I put on about 3 kg in a very short time. The rate of progression is deff connected to the quality of my sleep and the amount of protein I consume I did not follow as closely how much creatine impacts, but I think if it does, it does marginally compared to the others.

Still, this cohort might suffer from the issue of lack of awareness about _how exertive_ the actual workout is. I feel this is also something you should learn.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#125

Post by chank »

iamacyborg wrote: post #23
chank wrote: post #2

Over the years through my own involvement in sports and physically demaning jobs with trying a lot of different supplementation, I've come to the conclusion that most (if not all) supplements provide little to no value beyond a good diet. If they do, they're either illigal as non-perscription and/or require regular physician monitoring use correctly.

There are plenty of well researched performance enhancers which are legal, for example beta-alanine for middle distance runners.

The meaningfull context here was "good diet". If middle distance runners ate for middle distance running would they need to take beta alanine? E.g. ate more organ meat which contains high levels of beta alanine.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#126

Post by zzbzq »

RealityVoid wrote: post #124
leereeves wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When a RPE of 8 or lower was recorded, the external load (kg) was adjusted on successive sets to ensure that subjects achieved the target RM. The wording is a little technical. They're saying that, if the subject thought they could do at least 2 more reps at the end of this set, they increased the weight on the next set. So if creatine does allow people to do more reps at a given weight, subjects on creatine should…

If you can lift more reps, you can go to the next weight level. It's basically linear progression with a self-reported knob. My experience is that everytime I use creatine and start training after not training for like 3 weeks, I put on about 3 kg in a very short time. The rate of progression is deff connected to the quality of my sleep and the amount of protein I consume I did not follow as closely how much creatine…

They say you always gain a bunch of weight on creatine just from the higher water retention in the muscles

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#127

Post by lowqualityworld »

ActivePattern wrote: post #108
lowqualityworld wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the exact same experience, it took a while for creatine to start truly having an effect but I could see the extra water retention in the mirror and feel it in the gym. I think this study may have been too flawed to reach a strong conclusion. > After the 7-day wash-in, both groups followed the same RT program that comprising 3 full-body sessions a week for 12 weeks... > For all assessments, participants repor…

Wouldn't the extra stamina have been rewarded, assuming creatine allowed you to perform extra repetitions? All exercises were done to repetition maximum.

You're right, I read that too quickly.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#128

Post by thatsnotmepls »

jonwachob91 wrote: post #100
lawlessone wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found it gives me a lot more mental energy too. Like I can think better with creatine.

>>> more mental energy too Is that the creatine, or the caffeine added to virtually ALL creatine supplements?

https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=creatine&crid=BTIA1WJE0EL&sprefix=...

I pretty much don't see any creatine supplements with caffeine.

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#129

Post by glaugh »

cj wrote: post #115
glaugh wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal experience, having had low testosterone for much of my life and then now being on testosterone replacement therapy: - It’s obvious to me that I (n=1) gained a ton of muscle and lost a ton of fat very quickly without having done dramatic changes in workouts at first - It also made it waaaay easier to work out. I used to hate it bc I was exhausted all the time, and now I don’t really mind, and sometimes eve…

> no change in my life has been more important besides kids Quick note to add: if you're reading the above comment and you still want kids, it's important to note that loss of fertility is one of the most significant side effects of testosterone (or any steroid). There are additional medications that can reduce the risk (and possibly reverse it after fertility is already lost), but it's not guaranteed.

Yeah. A lot of the warnings on the side of the box are based on really suspect data from a very long time ago (Abraham Morgentaler at Harvard is my go-to for this) but the point cj raises is legit.

When a man takes exogenous testosterone, their endogenous production (in the testicles) plummets. This is largely fine, but the production in the testicles also leads to sperm production, and that gets lost.

The solution to this is HCG, which stimulates some testicular production. But it is not a perfect solution, and recently CA has made it much harder to use HCG for this purpose (which was always off-label).

Re: Sports supplement creatine makes no difference to muscle gains, trial finds

#130

Post by kjkjadksj »

cratermoon wrote: post #16
laszlojamf wrote: post #4

The way I understood it creatine by itself doesn't promote muscle gain all that much. It's the fact that you can potentially do one to three more reps which does. But that still means you have to do the reps. https://leangains.com/supplements-you-might-actually-find-us...

This is correct. There are two main biological activities involving creatine, a combination of amino acids: 1. it facilitates recycling of ADP back to ATP, obviously more ATP means more energy, meaning ability to do more reps 2. it acts as a pH buffer, countering the fatigue effects of lactic acid buildup. So no, taking creatine without doing the work probably won't make a difference (except to your wallet), but use…

Assuming your body doesn’t form a dependency to it somehow and becomes sluggish weening off of it.
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