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It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

thephcheese.com

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Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#121

Post by eric-hu »

talkingtab wrote: post #75

It seems wrong to me that most of what people now call cheese is not at all like what I think of as "real cheese". I have ended up making cheese and it is both fascinating, productive and tasty. While there are many "recipes" for cheeses, they are mainly focused on preparing the cheese for aging. These are often techniques, like washing the curd (gouda) or cheddaring (cheddar). The aging part takes more work. I conve…

Thank you for sharing your experience!

This is something I’ve been curious about. Can you speak more about how you got into it? What kind of research did you do before getting started? Did you know anyone else who had done it before you got into it?

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#122

Post by gambiting »

kelnos wrote: post #115
gambiting wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The difference is massive! Like...in what way? If I buy a block of Aldi's cheddar and Aldi's pre-shredded cheese it tastes the same once it's mixed into something - except the block saves me like 20p and wastes 10 minutes of my life on grating and cleaning up afterwards.

> Like...in what way? GP literally told you the ways in their post: texture. Taste will vary regardless of the anti-caking agent, of course.

Well, I can't tell personally, but good on OP for being able to tell.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#123

Post by ThrowMeAway1618 »

Suppafly wrote: post #93
kube-system wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While cellulose is an anticaking agent, I don't think I've ever seen it used for cheese. Typically you see cheese using a modified corn starch. I've seen potato, corn, and cellulose. I suspect the ideal choice depends on the type of cheese. Here's shredded parmesan with cellulose for example: https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/42642acb-1802-40dd-bfa6-795...

parmesan is pretty much the only one i ever see with cellulose

[flagged]

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#124

Post by xandrius »

talkingtab wrote: post #75

It seems wrong to me that most of what people now call cheese is not at all like what I think of as "real cheese". I have ended up making cheese and it is both fascinating, productive and tasty. While there are many "recipes" for cheeses, they are mainly focused on preparing the cheese for aging. These are often techniques, like washing the curd (gouda) or cheddaring (cheddar). The aging part takes more work. I conve…

These "most" people might be country specific.

I make cheese myself (both fresh and year-long aged ones) and virtually all the people I met knew what real cheese was.

If it is the "ultra-processed" cheese what you are referring to, that might not be liked by some but that's still cheese, regardless of its plastic-y feel.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#125

Post by josephg »

Suppafly wrote: post #95
kube-system wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the anti-caking agent is to prevent the cheese from sticking to itself, which inherently affects the texture of the cheese in your mouth... it doesn't stick to itself the same way freshly shredded cheese does, particularly if the cheese is soft and sticky like processed american cheeses. Although it is likely less noticeable for dryer and harder cheeses.

>The point of the anti-caking agent is to prevent the cheese from sticking to itself, which inherently affects the texture of the cheese in your mouth It does so by keeping the cheese 'dryer' than it normally would be. Putting it in your mouth basically undoes that. You're only going to notice if you're eating it by the handful, not when you're using it in actual food dishes.

You seem very certain that you know how my mouth works. I promise you, you don’t.

I’m a super taster. I did a test when I was 20. You take a macro photo of your tongue and count the taste buds in a 1cm square spot. From what I read at the time, the average person has 25 taste buds per sq cm. I have 40. Some people have as few as 10. Imagine how different food must taste to all of us!

And flavours don’t just “scale up”. Some flavours are way too strong for me - like, spinach is super strong. If spinach is on pizza, all I taste is spinach. I can’t taste anything else and I may as well be eating a salad. I can’t eat dark chocolate - it tastes like a punch in the mouth with wood ash. And I’ve never been able to drink coffee.

One of my all time favorite meals is plain pasta with butter and grated Parmesan. So simple. So yummy. But pre shredded cheese doesn’t melt the same way on pasta - and the difference is obvious to my mouth. Shredded Parmesan cheese has a much weaker cheese taste - even from the same brand. And the texture is all wrong.

Maybe your mouth can’t tell the difference. But don’t claim to know how my mouth works. I suspect if we could trade mouths for the day, we’d both be shocked.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#126

Post by frereubu »

rbrownmh wrote: post #100
dekhn wrote: post #15

Cheese crystals are umami. Many of them are glutamate crystals. I am curious if the other amino crystals have a similar flavor profile.

The umami flavor of cheese, especially hard cheeses, is incredibly under appreciated. And I'll never understand the popularity of pre-shredded cheese...

Me either, but a relative who worked in processed foods told me the reason it exists isn't just lazy consumers, it's made from the oddly-shaped (by supermarket standards) offcuts that they can't sell otherwise.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#127

Post by dekhn »

rbrownmh wrote: post #100
dekhn wrote: post #15

Cheese crystals are umami. Many of them are glutamate crystals. I am curious if the other amino crystals have a similar flavor profile.

The umami flavor of cheese, especially hard cheeses, is incredibly under appreciated. And I'll never understand the popularity of pre-shredded cheese...

Umami is a lot more present that people recognize. I've built up an intuition for this over the years, and also sort of trained my tongue.

What we call umami is a subjective experience that has an underlying molecular cause, but it's complicated: more than one molecule contributes to the sensation, different foods have different molecules, many people can't recognize it on its own, etc.

The most easily recognized umami tastes seem to come from hydrolyzed soy protein and yeast extracts- both are added to tons of food. The canonical example is Doritos, which are a masterpiece of modern food industrial optimization. Doritos are mostly corn, but they also add whey (cheese derived umami), MSG (molecular, isolated glutamate in salt form), buttermilk (multiple flavors including umami), romano cheese (more umami!), tomato powder (umami), inositate (umami). It's basically an umami bomb.

From what I can tell, the best umami flavors come from a combination of several different molecules combined with some salt. the combination seems to potentiate the flavor significantly. You can also saturate out your receptors- if you drink a highly concentrated broth, you'll see there's some upper limit to the amount of umami you can taste and after that, additional aminos are just wasted.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#128

Post by crazygringo »

0_____0 wrote: post #71
craftkiller wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had both and I'm going to have to disagree with you here. For the other cheeses, buying a brick is always the right choice. For parmesan, if its going on pasta I'm picking the green plastic tube of presumably mostly filler 100% of the time. Brick parm lacks the proper texture and has too strong of a flavor. Green tube mystery powder I can pour onto my pasta in mounds that then absord the butter making a soft del…

This, I think, is a case of Different Thing Same Name. The same way that coffee runs the gamut between the gnarliest of instant coffees to 3rd wave single-origin craft brews. Almost every step of the production chain is different, and while they're all technically coffee, they're basically different products, that get enjoyed in different contexts. Weirdly, I enjoy a 80s style black coffee when I'm at the greasy spoo…

Totally agree. Green tube powder is awesome on cheap pizza and cheap pasta.

Real parm is awesome shaved in salads, mixed in fancy pasta or risotto, etc.

But they are as different as cheddar and mozzarella. They taste nothing alike.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#129

Post by nobody9999 »

almosthere wrote: post #72
xattt wrote: post #10

Tangential, but I recently noticed that natamycin, an antifungal agent, is being used in packages of shredded cheese as a preservative. I was a little taken aback on seeing it, given that antibiotic stewardship has been pushed so much in the last decade. I realize that natamycin is an antifungal and not an antibiotic, and that mechanisms of developing resistance are likely different between eukaryotes and prokaryotes…

If you look, you can still find shredded cheeses without this, but it's usually pretty rare now.

>If you look, you can still find shredded cheeses without this, but it's usually pretty rare now.

You're quite correct. Thankfully, my local has me covered with that![0][1]

The stuff without preservatives definitely doesn't last as long, but the difference in taste/texture makes all the difference.

[0] https://shop.wmarketnyc.com/s/1000-1052/i/INV-1000-87892

[1] https://shop.wmarketnyc.com/s/1000-1052/i/INV-1000-89151

Edit: Fixed link formatting.

Re: It’s not mold, it’s calcium lactate (2018)

#130

Post by crazygringo »

dghughes wrote: post #61
parliament32 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the best example is parmesan. You should buy a small brick and shred it, then compare to the Kraft tube we all know -- the difference is massive.

Kraft brand Parmesan has cellulose in it too I don't think many people read the ingredients. It's funny more than anything. I started buying real block of Parmesan cheese and it's certainly different more sour. The crystals closes to the rind are where the flavour is. Kraft may not even be Parmesan US laws allow other types of cheaper cheese and lots of cellulose sometimes 40%. edit: I should note the crystals theory…

The cellulose isn't there as filler, it's to prevent clumping. You need it.

And the finer the cheese is grated, the more surface area, so the more cellulose you need.

It's not optional.

(Also no idea what crystals you're talking about, but you don't eat the rind. You can save it to add flavor to soups though, taking it back out at the end. That's just more about not wasting it since it's inedible though.)

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