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Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

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Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#121

Post by aboringusername »

janwillemb wrote: post #31

It is very hard to use Android without a Google account. Most people accept that. They must have learnt from that.

This isn't true at all. Getting a Pixel and GrapheneOS running requires no Google account (but does require the internet initially to enable OEM unlocking).

Once GrapheneOS is installed, no further interaction with Google is required. You can happily and easily use a main profile without play services/Gapps (and Graphene allows you to block 'network' at the socket layer if you do need to use apps).

You could then have a 'work' profile or use private space which is isolated from your main profile that uses play services/app store but it is absolutely not required.

It _is_ a learning curve for sure, but I do not feel Google is going out of its way like Microsoft is here to make it burdensome. (In fact, Google is quite welcoming to OEM unlocking unlike some other phone manufacturers)

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#122

Post by lozenge »

xattt wrote: post #101
samiv wrote: post #45

I'm also 100% convinced Microsoft will introduce mandatory code signing at some point and make it so that you can only ever install software from Windows Store. They are envious of the Google and Apple walled gardens/cashcows and are now determined to turn Windows into one. Windows is no longer a product for users, the users of Windows are the product for Microsoft to be shoved into the Azure sales funnel.

Isn’t that the point of Pluton? (1) https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/hardware-...

And the user-facing feature Smart App Control- https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/applicati...

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#123

Post by 0xmarcin »

samiv wrote: post #45

I'm also 100% convinced Microsoft will introduce mandatory code signing at some point and make it so that you can only ever install software from Windows Store. They are envious of the Google and Apple walled gardens/cashcows and are now determined to turn Windows into one. Windows is no longer a product for users, the users of Windows are the product for Microsoft to be shoved into the Azure sales funnel.

I highly doubt it, Windows is known for its stellar backward compatibility. Code signing means a lot of older software, that is still in use, would not be able to install or run. This is not going to happen (at least in the enterprise).

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#124

Post by debugnik »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #111
facile3232 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are envious of the Google and Apple walled gardens/cashcows and are now determined to turn Windows into one. Which is perplexing, because this is essentially the opposite strategy than what gave windows value to begin with.

It would be amusing for Microsoft to end up in a situation where developers don’t want to target Windows anymore, just like Apple in the 90’s. Perhaps they think it doesn’t matter once everything is in the cloud.

We're most of the way there with the switch to web apps and their native wrappers, even Microsoft isn't using their own UI toolkits anymore.

The only segments left targeting Windows as a platform are games, replacements/extensions to the OS tools, and a bunch of legacy .NET LOB apps. And since the Steam Deck and clones, Wine/Proton are (very) slowly becoming the actual target for games rather than Windows.

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#125

Post by aboringusername »

potemkinhr wrote: post #117
jakeogh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No google acct here, I use fdroid and the Aurora store. I have no doubt though that google is working on killing the Aurora store. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41773781

Do banking apps work normally if downloaded from the aurora store? I'd very much like to fully degoogle my next phone when I get to replacing it, and it's the last stumbling stone

Absolutely. You should check out the list [1] to see what banking apps are verified working with GrapheneOS. It's worth noting if your banking app isn't on this list it does not mean it will not work.

[1]: https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#126

Post by atemerev »

Ylpertnodi wrote: post #103
atemerev wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows is a launcher for games, there is no other use for this system (correction: it still runs some specialized professional software that is too expensive to port). And now, even most of the games work on Linux too.

I have lots of windows (mainly music) software that I need, let alone outright purchased, and isn't available on Linux.

It is usually available on Macs. Of course, there is still some specialized software for Windows, e.g. many CADs. But all these things are now marginal. If you are a software engineer and use Windows for your work, you are now a minority.

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#127

Post by consp »

eru wrote: post #104
agilob wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the main reason why Valve is investing in Linux and Steam Deck.

Apropos, running Steam on my Archlinux Desktop with Windows compatibility turned on works really, really well. Much better than what I remembered from the bad old days of trying to get stuff running in Wine.

Wine and it's alternatives have greatly profited from valve going this route and as a result all software runs better. It's a gradual improvement over time and we are past the early stages. I'm still running a gaming PC on windows but that is going to end quite soon if Microsoft keeps doing these things.

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#128

Post by jwrallie »

mythz wrote: post #22

All these user hostile behavior finally tipped me over the edge last year after I started to get Windows 10 EOL popups. No way I was going to "upgrade" to a ad/spyware/subscription ridden MS marketing platform and be constantly nagged at to try out more of their services. Moved to a Fedora Desktop, liberating to move back to an conflict-free OS whose primary focus is to serve its users, imagine that.

I've been running the Xfce spin of Fedora for the last year, and it is the most stable OS I have since forever.

For the few programs that really need Windows, I use Qemu/KVM with Virt-Manager and Samba for sharing files.

I wish to keep using this setup, I just hope buying hardware with good Linux support in the future does not become too difficult. I fear moving away from x86 will make things harder.

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#129

Post by KeplerBoy »

donnachangstein wrote: post #55
samiv wrote: post #45

I'm also 100% convinced Microsoft will introduce mandatory code signing at some point and make it so that you can only ever install software from Windows Store. They are envious of the Google and Apple walled gardens/cashcows and are now determined to turn Windows into one. Windows is no longer a product for users, the users of Windows are the product for Microsoft to be shoved into the Azure sales funnel.

> I'm also 100% convinced Microsoft will introduce mandatory code signing at some point and make it so that you can only ever install software from Windows Store 2017 called. It wants Windows S Mode back. Needless to say it still isn't very popular. But this has been around for 8 years now

I actually would consider S Mode if it supported steam and it's games. For serious computing I boot into Linux anyways.

Re: Upcoming Windows 11 builds cannot install without internet and Microsoft Account

#130

Post by d_tr »

sshine wrote: post #97
cedws wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would never work, they would have to have some kind of override. Microsoft doesn’t have that kind of leverage over Windows users because they don’t have tight vertical integration. If Windows 12 enforced that, users would just stay on Windows 11 and MS’ leverage would decrease even further.

I can’t believe people didn’t stay on Windows 7. It seems to have slid into some always-online ad-filled cloud hellhole since. Office365 is worse than Office 2000. This is the OEM strategy still at play. You gotta hand it to Bill Gates for capturing PCs for decades. People truly don’t care how poor their operating system behaves, because your only other option is to buy a Mac.

Too much fuss with community hacks to maybe get stuff working and end up having wasted time in any case. There is too much garbage to deal with in modern computing already. And some features are just not available with or without hacks.

If I want to use a decent OS, I can do most of my development on Fedora or Arch or some other Linux distro at my workplace.

For proprietary stuff that won't work there, honestly, Windows 11 is not that bad as far as Windows go. I do not get ads, I use a local account without problems and I can do development actually decently with PowerShell, vcpkg, VS Code which Microsoft offers for free and which work on all platforms.

TL;DR: There are hills with a much better view to die on.

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