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Deregulated energy markets accelerate solar adoption

seanobannon.substack.com

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Re: Deregulated energy markets accelerate solar adoption

#121

Post by krapp »

themaninthedark wrote: post #110
krapp wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think domestic manufacturers will abuse labor and pollute? The same party that wants to move manufacturing back to the US also wants to deregulate as much as possible, roll back labor rights and repeal environmental laws. The cost of moving manufacturing out of China and to the US is that the few Americans who can get work in a mostly AI driven and automated industry will eventually get treated and paid lik…

I think that some domestic manufacturers will abuse labor and pollute, you will never have 100% compliance. However it is far easier to police things here then somewhere without our regulatory framework. If Nike could get away with child sweatshops in the US, why did they bother moving abroad? Sure, they want to roll back all those protections but we don't have to. And more to the point, why doesn't the US party that…

>Sure, they want to roll back all those protections but we don't have to.

But we're going to. You know that's the deal.

>And more to the point, why doesn't the US party that champions labor rights and environmental regulations want to move manufacturing back to the US?

Both parties are strongly pro-business and pro-manufacturing[0], and the Democrats did campaign on reshoring just because it's a no-brainer, but they seem more focused on preserving labor rights and a living wage than do Republicans.

[0]https://www.americanmanufacturing.org/blog/what-does-the-off...

Re: Deregulated energy markets accelerate solar adoption

#122

Post by asacrowflies »

_bin_ wrote: post #116
asacrowflies wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling out a rather destructive take with just harsh NO is pretty high on the the hierarchy of disagreement. If you refer to the "bitch" statement that is quoting the person I replied to .... Their own comment seems heavily concerned with "being a bitch" which implies deep insecurity or trauma on their part .... Pretty typical maladaptive coping mechanism... Are all these extra words to say the same thing I already…

It’s a crude term, sure, but sums up a potential future where total dependence for critical materials leads to one nation being able to do relatively whatever she wants while the other is stuck taking terms as given. If you’d prefer “highly disadvantaged diplomatic, economic, and security situation” I can say that, but this is an internet comment not a freaking Brookings Institute report. Calling me an insane jingois…

Insane because almost none of this is based on reality and as another commenter said is just US imperialist propaganda. Literally hyper concerned with dominance and zero sum winner take all logic aka fascist. Using sexual terms to illicit an emotional response as if China is RAPING us by not giving us everything for nothing(a bitch)? again a fascist style of logic that the ONLY outcome is SOMEONE being the bitch ...

You talk about going back to era of enforced IP as if it isn't the USA that has led to the modern draconian farce of IP .... The golden age of the US growth was when we had a similar disregard for such silly concepts... Or ignoring the fact the vast majority of the US industry base was built on "stolen" British IP?

Jingoist because you are obsessed with war and violence and making things/people"bitches" thru petty dominance rather than leading by excellence as the US has some in the past.

So to summarize

Insane because lack of connection to reality and history and actual geopolitics beyond usa supremacism.

Jingoist because immediate reaction to war/violence/domination/humiliation of enemies etc .

Re: Deregulated energy markets accelerate solar adoption

#123

Post by epistasis »

merely-unlikely wrote: post #118
epistasis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they don't have access to cheap natural gas so the financial incentive to switch to renewables is even stronger. Even more so given the inability of coal to flexibly produce power throughout the day, so cheaper renewables just completely kill the economic feasibility of coal.

I think you have that flexibility backwards. Coal can be ramped up relatively quickly and operates in nearly all weather conditions, but wind and solar are at the whim nature. Unless you're only talking hydropower and nuclear power which China is also building, but those like coal have significant upfront capital investments and minimum scale. Either way, the idea that coal is economically infeasible is contradicted…

> Coal can be ramped up relatively quickly

That's exactly what coal is bad at. Anything less than a day is bad news for coal. Which means that all this coal capacity is building is going to be for rarer seasonal events, and going to be mostly sitting unused.

Re: Deregulated energy markets accelerate solar adoption

#124

Post by kragen »

makotech221 wrote: post #5

Gimme a break. Compare China's centralized economy's solar/wind/nuclear production to the entirety of the west's decentralized, privatized economy. not even close.

China's solar and wind production is extremely decentralized, and its nuclear production is not significant, except as usual from a proliferation perspective.

While (centralized, government) industrial policy has played a key role in making its renewable energy sector so utterly dominant, the sector thus created is more decentralized and privatized than in even the US.

Re: Deregulated energy markets accelerate solar adoption

#125

Post by kragen »

r00fus wrote: post #98
leetharris wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good, all we need to do is become China and we're set!

No, but the US needs to actually compete with China. Instead the reaction from leadership has been to utter fail to compete and lambast China as an enemy instead of a competitor. None of this serves anyone but the ruling class and deep state. War with China is going to be one that the US loses.

War with China would leave every city in both the US and China a radioactive wasteland. The US would lose, but so would China.

Re: Deregulated energy markets accelerate solar adoption

#126

Post by outer_web »

miohtama wrote: post #60
mmanfrin wrote: post #12

CTRL+F 'Enron' 0 results. Don't really trust something advocating for deregulated energy markets to not mention the elephant in the room.

Enron was the result accounting fraud, not energy market regulation or lack of it.

Lol their bankruptcy was. Read up on it or watch the documentary.

Re: Deregulated energy markets accelerate solar adoption

#127

Post by outer_web »

_bin_ wrote: post #54
mmanfrin wrote: post #12

CTRL+F 'Enron' 0 results. Don't really trust something advocating for deregulated energy markets to not mention the elephant in the room.

the big issue with enron was semi-fraudulent accounting, not market manipulation. the stuff they puleld in cali was pretty slimy but i don't think something nearly thirty years old needs mention. any more than it does if a company wants to use mark-to-market accounting.

Nothing has changed in twenty years. Texans still hate California, businesses still exploit people for profit.

Re: Deregulated energy markets accelerate solar adoption

#128

Post by kragen »

Spivak wrote: post #15
epistasis wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California is not plummeting in total emissions either, which is the point of the plots in there. The only thing that could move this along faster is to shut down fully running and functional fossil fuel facilities, which means that the huge capital assets are stranded and a big loss to the people who paid for them. There, Texas's approach of private investors bearing the cost of that poor investment will fare much b…

> and making EVs about the same cost as a gas car At first I was like, isn't that great EVs are the more expensive car but then I realized you meant that the electricity costs as much as the equivalent gas. Oof. Yikes. That's really bad.

A nice thing about EVs is that they already have enough battery to shift their energy consumption from the powerline to whatever hour is most economical. So you can install solar panels on your house and charge your EV during peak daylight hours if you're home then, or get the company to install them over the office parking lot if you're at the office then. This eliminates the cost of storage from the cost of upgrading to solar. Even at the US's grossly inflated costs, that makes it an easy economic win.

Re: Deregulated energy markets accelerate solar adoption

#129

Post by kragen »

kragen wrote: post #21

The most significant US regulations in the area aren't even mentioned in this article: the prohibitively high tariffs on Chinese solar modules and electric vehicles, which at least double the cost of solar panels and EVs in the US compared to much of the rest of the world. Current US elites grew up in the energy crisis that started with the Arab oil embargo of 01973 cutting off US energy imports, and they seem determ…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43436151 is a recent comment of mine with cost estimates based on current pricing.

Re: Deregulated energy markets accelerate solar adoption

#130

Post by mbrumlow »

kragen wrote: post #76
_bin_ wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we cannot afford, geopolitically, to have a hostile rival nation with whom we may in the next decade be at war control our energy. There is no if, and, or but about that. Of course, most of said solar and battery tech was originally developed by Americans; chinese bought old patents, bought companies out of bankruptcy, and threw obscene amounts of state capital at developing it further. and now we're stuck wi…

You can't afford to go to war with an industrialized nation whose energy is immensely cheaper than your own, nor with a nuclear-armed nation. Solar panels are different from oil in that their producers cannot turn them off, so importing them now would increase your energy security, not decrease it. For EVs the situation is more complex because of potential backdoors in firmware, but PV modules do not have any firmwar…

> Solar panels are different from oil in that their producers cannot turn them off

Uhh they don’t last forever. So yeah. They can be controlled like oil if you are unable to make or source replacements.

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