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Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

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Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#121

Post by xavxav »

echoangle wrote: post #102
jampekka wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 4G just couldn't handle heavy loads well, so data caps were needed to constrain demand. In many parts of the world uncapped data has been the norm since around GPRS.

Could that be because they aren’t as densely populated by users so even if everyone with a phone has no data cap, they won’t overload the network? Which countries were that for example?

basically every european country? they've all had much larger datacaps than north america for years preceding 5g and most are quite densely inhabited.

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#122

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

refulgentis wrote: post #64
cbg0 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5G in general (strictly inferior to incumbent, speed isn't faster, latency is higher, not as reliable) I'm guessing this is a US thing? In Europe, 5G is definitely faster while latency is on par with 4G. YMMMV between EU countries though.

You're right, it's definitely better than 4G, my wording was unclear, more in the sense of "Would I make this my home ISP?" than "how did 5G go?" (I would have thought cell providers would have 20-30% of the market now, ah, the follys of youth...)

5G home internet is the preferred in Australia where fibre isn’t present.

Even at my house where I have FTTH, my mobile 5G connection is persistently faster and quicker, that is both bandwidth and latency are superior on my phone from my home location.

Of course, the pricing is structured so you’re better off paying for both, either fixed internet plus mobile phone plane, or fixed 5G and mobile phone plan, depending on what is available at any specific location, but typically not all three options.

Thank you centrally planned infrastructure.

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#123

Post by proxysna »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #13

RONJA[0] with lasers? >smile Free space optics always seemed like a neat idea. For space-based communication, particularly if your "mission" involves as little stray emission as possible, I would think free space optics would be a win. I would assume there's more error correction, but otherwise I wonder how dramatically this differs from modulating light on a fiber. It seems like a similar problem. [0] https://en.wik…

Exactly my first thought. Had this link in my bookmarks for an eternity. http://images.twibright.com/tns/1208.html

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#124

Post by cameldrv »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #41

I'm low key afraid that this stuff is gonna get popular for .mil usage. Line of sight free space optics can be immune to many many forms of jamming. Its usage dots the sci books I've read over the years, but almost always for scary reasons. Here's the Navy today announcing work on AirBorne System for Optical Relay and Broadcast (ABSORB), a (for now) low-cost prototype one-to-many (I maybe mis-inferring what multi-acc…

This is something the U.S. military has been working on for some time. I know of at least one project that's very advanced: https://www.ga-asi.com/multi-mission-payloads/lac12-pod

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#125

Post by LoganDark »

charliebwrites wrote: post #90
umvi wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Line of sight free space optics can be immune to many many forms of jamming The most powerful weapons on earth already are immune to jamming. ICBMs use celestial navigation (pictures of the stars) to course-correct, which is a form of navigation you cannot jam.

Damn guess we have to blow up the stars …you know, for defense

Aperture Science would do it.

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#126

Post by echoangle »

xavxav wrote: post #121
echoangle wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could that be because they aren’t as densely populated by users so even if everyone with a phone has no data cap, they won’t overload the network? Which countries were that for example?

basically every european country? they've all had much larger datacaps than north america for years preceding 5g and most are quite densely inhabited.

I’m from Germany and I don’t know a single person with unlimited mobile data. That’s very rare here.

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#127

Post by LoganDark »

r14c wrote: post #61
geek_at wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That's the interesting paradox of technological development. If it's out of the bag, then it's out of bag, but that cuts both ways. You can never control who will gain access to advancements. Even if you trust the custodians now, you don't know who they will be in the future, &c. Eventually you end up at a fork: either pursue and endless technological arms race or find some way to build lasting cooperative and peacef…

> As they say, the surest way to destroy your enemy is to make them your friend.

Defeat, not destroy. The best way to defeat an enemy is to make them your friend. Destroying someone would not be very friendly (unless they want to be destroyed).

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#128

Post by johncalvinyoung »

refulgentis wrote: post #23
fsh wrote: post #15

This section from the marketing blurb doesn't sound too promising: When atmospheric conditions disrupt the light, our adaptive rate and hybrid architecture maintains the connection, with minimal downtime. In the long run, all these wireless technologies (satellite or optical/microwave terrestrial links) will have a very hard time competing with simply laying down some optical fiber.

It's interesting at 36 to look back at what I think would disrupt connectivity a decade ago: - Google Fiber (it wasn't possible to do it cheaper than incumbents, so it devolved to standard incumbent x why would 40% margin company invest billions to get Comcast's peak profit margin of ~15% profit) - Starry Internet (too expensive to build out, I have it and it's good, but the company certainly didn't scale) - 5G in ge…

As I deployed Starlink in an extremely obstructed spot last year for a few weeks, where multi-second dropouts were quite common... it impressed me JUST HOW MANY satellites they have up there, and just how usable my dish was despite only having ~60% of its field of view clear. It's switching satellites much more often than every five minutes.

The built-in obstruction mapping tool quickly demonstrated that though each satellite represents a tiny slice of sky... over the course of the day you're seeing a vast number of satellites at a high variety of spatial angles and orbits.

I wouldn't recommend that obstructed situation to anyone (and it's going in a much clearer location this coming summer) but the users I was supporting reported it a far far better solution than the 4G LTE they'd been depending on prior. Not a patch on fiber, but a great solution for an awkwardly remote property.

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#129

Post by datadrivenangel »

echoangle wrote: post #112
cogman10 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you probably can't target a cigarette butt on the street, you could definitely hit a building. Especially if the ICBM is paired with image recognition (which it has already for star nav) and/or backup positioning mechanisms like cell tower locations or well-known broadcasting tower locations (think television stations).

An ICBM is coming in at hypersonic speeds in the terminal phase, you’re not going to guide it anywhere using cell tower signals. The guidance is done much earlier. And I would doubt image recognition for ground features would make it that accurate, too. Before reentry, you’re very high and fast and reentry isn’t that predictable to get you accurate enough to hit a house. And during reentry, you’re not going to see an…

Yeah that would work for drones and slow cruise missiles but not ICBMs.

Re: Alphabet spins out Taara – Internet over lasers

#130

Post by alienthrowaway »

echoangle wrote: post #112
cogman10 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you probably can't target a cigarette butt on the street, you could definitely hit a building. Especially if the ICBM is paired with image recognition (which it has already for star nav) and/or backup positioning mechanisms like cell tower locations or well-known broadcasting tower locations (think television stations).

An ICBM is coming in at hypersonic speeds in the terminal phase, you’re not going to guide it anywhere using cell tower signals. The guidance is done much earlier. And I would doubt image recognition for ground features would make it that accurate, too. Before reentry, you’re very high and fast and reentry isn’t that predictable to get you accurate enough to hit a house. And during reentry, you’re not going to see an…

> An ICBM is coming in at hypersonic speeds in the terminal phase, you’re not going to guide it anywhere using cell tower signals.

Hypersonic glide ICBMs have been successfully tested by China, and are under development in the US, so it's entirely possible to maneuver, and optionally guide them in the terminal, though perhaps not advisable on a jammable channel, except perhaps as an anti-radiation weapon.

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