HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere • Hacker News Board

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#121

Post by Kipters » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 3:19 PM UTC

Teckla wrote: post #86

CharlieDigital wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I think it is safe to say C# is indeed a minor language That's not really the case; StackOverflow survey[0] shows C# (27.1%) right behind Java (30.3%) and well ahead of Go (13.5%), Rust (12.6%), Kotlin (9.4%), Ruby (5.2%), and Scala (2.6%). If we exclude HTML/CSS, Bash/Shell, and SQL, C# would be #5 in actual languages used over the past year by devs in this survey. You get the same result from scraping job post…

But because they had an existing body of code that was not class based, it would be more of a re-write (C#) versus a refactor (Go). I don't understand this reasoning at all, and I'm hoping you can shed some light on it. As far as I know, C# supports static methods. Thus, using OO in C# would not have been required, would it? I feel like I'm missing something here.

That wouldn't feel very idiomatic - you can do it but would feel wrong

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#122

Post by actionfromafar » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 3:20 PM UTC

homebrewer wrote: post #56

victor106 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can .net produce cross platform libraries/executables like Go does? With Go I can develop on Mac and create executables for windows and Linux

If your code does not rely on native libraries, or you're fine with shipping multiple copies for different operating systems, a single build works everywhere with dotnet installed. Or you can cross-compile and run without having dotnet on the target system, I do it from Linux to all three platforms all the time, it's pretty seamless. The application can be packaged into a single binary (similar to Go), or as a bunch…

How do you cross compile from linux to macos?

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#123

Post by dangoodmanUT » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 3:22 PM UTC

It's been proven many times that in well-connected networks (e.g. datacenters) H2 is faster, often because all of the things that H3 improves on is now handled in the user context, which negates the overhead.

The benefits only show in poorly connected networks (public internet), so that's pretty exclusively where it should be used - anything internet-facing.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#124

Post by progval » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 3:23 PM UTC

nly wrote: post #49

ddulaney wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not OP, but at $WORK we sell a C++ library. We want to make it as easy as possible for clients to integrate it into their existing binaries. We need to be able to integrate with CMake, Meson, vcxproj, and hand-written Makefiles. We’re not the only vendor: if another vendor is using a specific cURL version, you better hope we work with it too, otherwise integration is almost impossible. You could imagine us shippi…

Exactly this. You don't want multiple versions of cURL loaded in to your process dynamically. You need to be in control of the final link if you're shipping a .a to other teams

That doesn't work if other teams want to apply their own cURL patches, or update as soon as upstream publishes new security fixes without waiting for you.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#125

Post by Svoka » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 3:27 PM UTC

CharlieDigital wrote: post #109

shermantanktop wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.NET suffers from the long lasting reputational taint of Microsoft. It was seen as the sworn enemy of open source and Linux, and for good reason. Today’s MS is not what it was back then. But long memories are not a bad thing, really. If .NET suffers a bit from some unfair perception, perhaps that can remind MS and others what happens when you take an aggressively adversarial approach.

The ironic thing? GitHub, VS Code, and TypeScript are all Microsoft products.

Only Typescript is in-house. Others are acquisitions. Do you remember Embrace, extend, and extinguish times?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#126

Post by llm_nerd » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 3:29 PM UTC

xxs wrote: post #70

llm_nerd wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The benefits of QUIC / HTTP/3 have been extremely well defined as- -higher latency connections. -packet loss under multiplexing scenarios / suboptimal connections (e.g. mobile). These are the situations where it shines and runs away from HTTP/2. And this has been the promised advantage from the outset, and is literally the problem it is designed to solve. Given that the linked paper mentions the word latency once in…

>with 5% packet loss This is absolutely massive

It is bad packet loss, but is the sort of situations that people often find themselves in. Congestion, bad connections (which is a lot of mobile scenarios), satellite comms, and the like and it's a reality.

It's interesting how people often say HTTP/3 only benefits the megas like Google. A few years back I worked on a data centric system (fund administration) where we had a single centralized server cluster serving high value users across the globe. Because of the integration and real-time nature of the data, it wasn't possible to replicate to servers around the world, nor was local (relative to the user) caching of much value at all.

QUIC (which became HTTP/3) proved a significant improvement for users of the system. Users in the UK, Singapore, Australia, Germany, California, and so on, were all using a system in Toronto basically transparently, with great usability. That it was continents away suddenly didn't matter.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#127

Post by ajross » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 3:29 PM UTC

I think a lot of this is missing the point. The features HTTP/3 provides are features of value to datacenter and large scale deployment. Most sites deploying off-the-shelf solutions like nginx or whatever don't care. Most behind-the-reverse-proxy services don't care. So Cloudflare cares about HTTP/3, but their customers mostly don't, except the biggest ones.

Use the tool for the job. If a single-threaded Python server running HTTP/1.1 works for your IT app, then use that. HTTP/3 has nothing to offer you.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#128

Post by goeiedaggoeie » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 3:30 PM UTC

As an Akamai user I already serve all my DASH traffic (video) over http3. Akamai itself return to origin only supports http 1.1 LL-HLS forces me use HTTP2.

The problem here is Akamai really in only supporting HTTP1.1 to the origin. Cloudfare I think only supports HTTP2 to origin. Does Fastly yet support QUIC to origin? Does Cloudfront, I could only find information about it supporting QUIC the last mile.

Maybe more CDN support will drive web server support.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#129

Post by lokar » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 3:30 PM UTC

aboardRat4 wrote: post #69

TLS termination is still not working for HTTP/3, I think. The nicest feature of HTTP/3 is that it is UDP based, and thus does not allow so much interception by the malicious ISPs.

I think they mean these intercepting firewall/proxies that many big companies use to spy on their employees don’t work (yet)

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#130

Post by CharlieDigital » Mon, Mar 17, 2025, 3:32 PM UTC

Svoka wrote: post #125

CharlieDigital wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ironic thing? GitHub, VS Code, and TypeScript are all Microsoft products.

Only Typescript is in-house. Others are acquisitions. Do you remember Embrace, extend, and extinguish times? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

Does the distinction matter?