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The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

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Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#121

Post by threeseed »

modulus1 wrote: post #96

A company owning a web browser isn't the problem. A company owning a web browser, OS and search engine shouldn't be a problem either. I don't know why the remedy can't actually address the problem, and the DOJ can't move more quickly to address antitrust across the industry. This feels like randomly cutting a baby in half, while the rest of the thieves, even those in the same family, are not deterred.

> A company owning a web browser, OS and search engine shouldn't be a problem either

It is when Google compromises the privacy/security of Chrome because of their Ads/OS business.

For example, allowing first party cookies to be a maximum of 400 days versus Safari and Firefox where it is 7 days. These cookies are required by ads retargeting which is critical to effective ecommerce campaigns.

It also supports browser fingerprinting by advertisers which means that every random API Chrome adds (and they add a lot) directly improves their Ads revenue.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#122

Post by AlotOfReading »

derkster wrote: post #90
sneak wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m confused, as a firefox daily driver, why is firefox not a good browser? Or are we discounting it because it is funded by Google?

I'm with you. Every time one of these arguments come up, people talk about how Chrome is superior. I've used Firefox daily for minimum five years as a daily driver, and it's been atleast 3 years since I've had to install Chrome because some website specified that it NEEDED a Chromium based browser for something specific, I believe it was a Firmware Upgrade over USB - through the browser. I split my time between Windo…

I've seen increasing numbers of site breakages in the past 6mos. Airline websites that won't let you book, car rental websites that won't even load, the persistent PayPal bug that requires you to enter a security code. 2fa checks everywhere. I keep a chromium installed to deal with these, but when there's a decent alternative (i.e. not brave) I'll probably drop FF as a daily driver.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#123

Post by wmf »

hinkley wrote: post #89
qwerty456127 wrote: post #84

> The Justice Department also kept a Biden-era proposal that seeks to ban Google from paying companies like Apple, other smartphone manufacturers and Mozilla to make its search engine the default on their phones and browsers. RIP Firefox?

Ah fuck. Welp. They had a chance to be default alive and they fucked it by trying to spend the money on new initiatives instead of just spending the interest payments from an endowment.

Weren't the new initiatives pretty small compared to Firefox development?

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#125

Post by _bin_ »

andrewxdiamond wrote: post #111
ronnier wrote: post #103

It’s a big world. Does breaking up google give the Asian giants an advantage? Wonder if China breaks up their large tech companies?

Another perspective is Google is stifling American innovation by its megalithic presence in markets. Suppressing local growth in exchange for short term profitability. Separately, why is having tech giants a pure advantage? These companies got big by innovating, but the innovation slows down when they are big. Sounds to me that we should be regularly clearing old growth to let new ideas break through

one really easy example is the AI arms race. and make no mistake, it is an arms race that matters for maintaining global American supremacy and ensuring china stays secondary. LLMs are one of the very few recent technologies where the marginal cost of a user is well above zero; they require colossal build-out of energy and compute. everyone who's done a good job with them is either a tech giant or has become one in valuation. c.f. how Google specifically has been working on TPUs for years, produced solid models with Gemini, and offers them for a tiny fraction of the cost of others. having a large team experienced with scaling stuff perhaps better than anyone else is a good thing and google keeps those people paid.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#126

Post by pjmlp »

3vidence wrote: post #75
pjmlp wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure folks at Microsoft were saying the same of IE 5 and 6, as I was around when it took over.

If I remember my history Microsoft was never actually forced to stop integrating IE in their product. The only reason it stopped being the #1 browser is that Chrome came out and was better... Even though people had to go out of their way to download on all computers

Only because the whole thing was shut down when administration changed.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_C...

Nowadays if it wasn't for Safari, thanks to Chrome and Electron garbage, the Web is effectively ChromeOS.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#127

Post by _bin_ »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #84

> The Justice Department also kept a Biden-era proposal that seeks to ban Google from paying companies like Apple, other smartphone manufacturers and Mozilla to make its search engine the default on their phones and browsers. RIP Firefox?

time to try ladybird haha

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#128

Post by spease »

andrewxdiamond wrote: post #111
ronnier wrote: post #103

It’s a big world. Does breaking up google give the Asian giants an advantage? Wonder if China breaks up their large tech companies?

Another perspective is Google is stifling American innovation by its megalithic presence in markets. Suppressing local growth in exchange for short term profitability. Separately, why is having tech giants a pure advantage? These companies got big by innovating, but the innovation slows down when they are big. Sounds to me that we should be regularly clearing old growth to let new ideas break through

Some things can only be done at scale, or are a side effect of solving problems at scale. It’s not quite so simple as “big is bad”.

Also, it’s harder for international companies to buy, say, Google, than a browser-only company, just through the amount of capital needed to put up a credible offer.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#129

Post by pjmlp »

zdragnar wrote: post #77
pjmlp wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure folks at Microsoft were saying the same of IE 5 and 6, as I was around when it took over.

I would love for something to trounce chrome the way it did IE, and even FF (which was so slow chrome felt lightning fast by comparison). I'm not optimistic that it'll happen, but I'd still like to see it.

It starts by not shipping Electron garbage, and write browser agnostic Webapps.

Re: The DOJ still wants Google to sell off Chrome

#130

Post by cubefox »

Google has to sell Chrome, a completely optional browser, and stop supporting Firefox, the best Chrome alternative, while Apple is allowed to completely lock down iOS without allowing installing alternatives to Safari, or any third party app stores. Not to mention that Apple for years exploited its dominant market position in the US by resisting messaging RCS Android compatibility, and pressuring teens into either buying into the Apple or ecosystem or risk being socially ostracized from incompatible group chats. It seems to be more that a double standard.
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