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Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

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Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#121

Post by squigz »

showerst wrote: post #104
Ancapistani wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What the louder militia members and gun nuts are up to is no secret. For that matter, I'd include myself in the latter group. I'm reasonably vocal here - usually in an attempt to simply share my perspective, as it's not of the prevailing position in this community. Sure, "the gun nuts" have a different agenda than the larger community. We're gun nuts because that's important to us. I can't think of anything that I'…

While there's certainly more overlap than a random group of people, in discussions like these I think even the most anti-gun people recognize that the broader "I like guns because guns are fun" community isn't really the focus in terms of domestic terrorism or crazy race war stuff. Particularly on youtube there's this huge Forgotten Weapons, Garand Thumb, DemolitionRanch etc style sphere that stays relatively apoliti…

The problem is it's difficult to have one without the other. If the cost of reducing gun violence is that hobbyists can't collect guns... that's a cost I think society can stomach.

I'm not blaming hobbyists for gun violence or anything, obviously, but these ideas are not unconnected.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#122

Post by gadders »

lurk2 wrote: post #38
ferguess_k wrote: post #9

TBH I wouldn't be surprised if these organizations are infested with FBI agents.

Both organizations have had reputations for being honeypots as early as 2016. There have been a number of instances of federal agents becoming embedded in the organizational structures of groups like this (see e.g. the Malheur Wildlife Standoff and the plot to assassinate Gretchen Whitmer). Groups of this scale tend to fall into one of three categories: 1) They are honeypots set up by policing and / or intelligence a…

It is quite funny on 4chan and similar places watching everyone accuse everyone else that protests in some way of being a fed. Which I guess is job done for the security services.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#123

Post by psunavy03 »

ty6853 wrote: post #115
psunavy03 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, are you basing that on your years of experience and significant expertise concerning the US military?

Oh please chime in on how soldiers aren't subject to the same psychological influences of other humans, while charming us on your .mil street cred. I don't need to be a navy seal to understand this, veterans were among those charged in say the Whitmer plot.

No one is denying there are extremists in the military. There are also street gang members in the military. Saying they are a significant portion of the population is a much different argument than saying there is a fringe population where there are standing orders to expel them if found.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#125

Post by gadders »

wildzzz wrote: post #11
ferguess_k wrote: post #9

TBH I wouldn't be surprised if these organizations are infested with FBI agents.

Even the small group that tried to kidnap Whitmer had a suspected 12 informants and agents (3 confirmed informants, 2 agents) in the group. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gretchen_Whitmer_kidnapping_pl...

Jan 6th had loads of FBI informants as well.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#126

Post by mannyv »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #51
mannyv wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can search, but what do you search for if you don't know what's there?

If you don't know what's there you just start from the top I suppose. That's what happened with the Snowden leaks, they were picked apart over the span of months if not years by journalists, publishing what they found was interesting.

I suppose when you have a large corpus you start with as many browse points as you can. So maybe a list of the top senders, top recipients, recipient graphs.

I'd think by day would be next. Browse subjects by day, and word clouds for each message thread? The. Try to isolate topics discussed each day, then link the topics across days.

You should be able to click in and see the thread/messages/etc.

This is, at some level, how legal discovery stuff works from what I understand.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#127

Post by dragonwriter »

dingnuts wrote: post #106
potato3732842 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The characterization of "informants" as being literal on the payroll feds is usually incorrect. They're usually genuine group members who are being manipulated by literal on the payroll feds. And you're missing a key feedback loop. The feds typically "create" an informant by digging up dirt on someone and blackmailing them into ratting on their buddies in exchange for non-prosecution. This informant then has a huge f…

hence my confusion at the sudden "left" outcry over the attacks on the FBI and CIA, two organizations they have been bemoaning for my entire life, and with good reason! Those organizations are responsible for some of the absolute worst behavior associated with American history, the most shameful of shameful episodes throughout the Americas were started by the CIA and FBI. I think the outcry is actually mostly media-o…

> hence my confusion at the sudden "left" outcry over the attacks on the FBI and CIA,

The attacks are premised on them being too leftist and needing to be replaced in their function by new/rebuilt organizations that are more friendly to the Right, which is the source of the center to center-left opposition to them (the Left itself is more focussed on criticizing the tactics of the center-to-center-left opposition than the regime.)

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#128

Post by pnemonic »

ty6853 wrote: post #118
red-iron-pine wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of things that could be easily taken out of context, sure, and a fair number of things that are just plain inappropriate - but you could say the same for any community. What kind of ridiculous copium is this? i'm sure the quilting community says all sorts of terrible things that could be taken out of context. the difference is they don't have a long history of gun violence. ain't no one showed up and killed 20…

>the government, and arguably global economy, is under threat and you're doing what exactly with these guns? What do you suggest is done with the guns about that? You want us to kill over disagreement on economic policy?

Global economics has the power to kill far more people than small arms ever could. We suggest you put your money where your exceptionally large mouths are.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#129

Post by BryantD »

potato3732842 wrote: post #93
lurk2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both organizations have had reputations for being honeypots as early as 2016. There have been a number of instances of federal agents becoming embedded in the organizational structures of groups like this (see e.g. the Malheur Wildlife Standoff and the plot to assassinate Gretchen Whitmer). Groups of this scale tend to fall into one of three categories: 1) They are honeypots set up by policing and / or intelligence a…

The characterization of "informants" as being literal on the payroll feds is usually incorrect. They're usually genuine group members who are being manipulated by literal on the payroll feds. And you're missing a key feedback loop. The feds typically "create" an informant by digging up dirt on someone and blackmailing them into ratting on their buddies in exchange for non-prosecution. This informant then has a huge f…

I feel like it's worth noting that this is not a universal dynamic. Tim McVeigh didn't need a fed to turn into the kind of person who kills 168 people. I'm sure we're all aware of the way this occasional dynamic gets turned into an excuse for any radicial behavior: "must have been a false flag, must have been talked into it." Which, to be clear, you did not say -- but we see it often.

Re: Exploring the Paramilitary Leaks

#130

Post by edgineer »

lurk2 wrote: post #116
potato3732842 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The characterization of "informants" as being literal on the payroll feds is usually incorrect. They're usually genuine group members who are being manipulated by literal on the payroll feds. And you're missing a key feedback loop. The feds typically "create" an informant by digging up dirt on someone and blackmailing them into ratting on their buddies in exchange for non-prosecution. This informant then has a huge f…

> The characterization of "informants" as being literal on the payroll feds is usually incorrect. They're usually genuine group members who are being manipulated by literal on the payroll feds. I never implied that they were. > a federal agency [...] influences them into becoming informants. It's quite common for the FBI to frame this as "helping to keep people safe"; leaders in groups like this are frequently easy t…

Turning leadership of an already radicalized organization is not what he means. New converts to a group who are actually informants will provoke an organization to radicalism.

[0]https://www.npr.org/2011/08/21/139836377/the-surge-in-fbi-in...

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