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Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

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Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#121

Post by lossolo »

mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #19

Privatization is what a lot of people believe is the answer, thinking that there is so much waste and useless things the Federal government does. These people must have never worked at a large corporation. I have a relative in the federal government and we would share stories because the dysfunctions are basically the same. Any large organization of humans working uses a pyramid organization since like the middle age…

As part of cost-cutting efforts, the U.S. government outsourced military logistics and supply chain management to private contractors like KBR (Kellogg Brown & Root, a Halliburton subsidiary). Instead of the military running the system at cost, private companies added profit margins, and the price of everyday goods—including soda—increased significantly.

KBR and other contractors billed the government enormous sums for logistics and operations, including running dining facilities, supply chains, and retail operations. Reports showed waste, overcharging, and inefficiencies, with some contractors billing the U.S. military $45 for a six-pack of soda in extreme cases due to inflated supply chain costs.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#122

Post by trentnix »

blactuary wrote: post #51
mattbrewsbytes wrote: post #19

Privatization is what a lot of people believe is the answer, thinking that there is so much waste and useless things the Federal government does. These people must have never worked at a large corporation. I have a relative in the federal government and we would share stories because the dysfunctions are basically the same. Any large organization of humans working uses a pyramid organization since like the middle age…

Yes, this exactly. Reflexive "ugh govt" is a result of decades of Reagan-ite propaganda. Govt is just people, and people are flawed and have competing incentives. I've worked in massive companies that have incredibly dumb inefficiencies.

> Reflexive "ugh govt" is a result of decades of Reagan-ite propaganda

I (and many others) have worked for, contracted for, interacted with, and/or closely observed government for decades. The only “reflexive” thing here is your argument that people who disagree with the you are the victims of propaganda.

You can certainly quibble with the details on how to deliver government efficiency (and I highly encourage people to sincerely scrutinize any efforts to do so - it should produce better results), but there are good and valid reality-based reasons that the “DOGE” mission has broad support.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#123

Post by Vaslo »

suddenlybananas wrote: post #70
modeless wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is private companies that accumulate too much waste and useless things can fail and be replaced. The exception is companies propped up by government regulation. The problem with modern big companies is that the exception has become the rule. Regulation is so pervasive it's become a "what the hell is water" situation. People don't even recognize that the dysfunctional companies are protected from failur…

Delusion belief in market forces that completely ignores the reality when companies reach monopoly status.

You’re right in that government is a monopoly in most cases.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#124

Post by delecti »

fire_lake wrote: post #50
hypeatei wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These people must have never worked at a large corporation Efficiency isn't the point, the point is funneling more money to themselves and their friends.

Efficiency is not resilient. Supply chains were efficient before Covid and look what happened. Efficiency is a non-goal for government. I’m surprised that DOGE engineers (who presumably have deployed a load balancer or two) don’t understand this.

The DOGE engineers are Musk sycophants, and Musk is tearing apart the government so he and other oligarchs can profit off the unmet needs.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/27/business/elon-musk-faa-air-tr...

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#125

Post by _fat_santa »

jkubicek wrote: post #44
_fat_santa wrote: post #25

Put Mark Cuban to the side for a bit, I think the general idea of 18f going private is a good one and was my first reaction when I heard they were getting dissolved. EDIT: I think it's a good idea in the context of them getting dissolved. I would much prefer if they continued to exist within the govt, but if the choice is between going private and ceasing to exist, I would prefer they go private and I think it's a go…

I think 18F going private is a terrible idea. The US government should directly employ the people that are responsible for building and owning its core infrastructure.

I would argue that companies like Plantir show that it's actually quite viable to be in the private sector while simultaneously serving the public sector. Granted Plantir is primarily military and law enforcement but I would say the overall model could work well for other parts of the govt.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#126

Post by Insanity »

whyenot wrote: post #66
dcow wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way you combat the creep of bureaucratic miasma is by regularly turning a critical eye inward. At least private organizations perform regular layoffs. At least private organizations are accountable to shareholders. The government is accountable to citizens and citizens voted for this. Yes, it’s disruptive. That’s the point.

A plurality (49.8%) of voters voted for Trump. More voted for something else.

Fair, but not on the same “something else” so Trump still had the majority share.

I guess I’m more surprised by the low voter turnout. If you voted for Trump or didn’t vote at all, you are partly responsible for the mess being created lol.

Choosing not to pick a side is a choice in itself - not the absence of choice.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#127

Post by dcow »

bayindirh wrote: post #80
dcow wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot accept that sending 100B to an NGO where 90-95B ends up in politicians’ pockets and 10-5% ends up as actual aid or whatever is the most efficient system.

That's corruption and is universally bad. That's nothing to do with efficiency (remember the E in DOGE). Let's not move the goalposts, shall we?

I’m not moving goalposts, that’s what DOGE is attacking. It’s 100% part of efficiency. And it’s absolutely happening. DOGE is addressing “fraud, waste, and abuse”.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#128

Post by alephnerd »

trentnix wrote: post #122
blactuary wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this exactly. Reflexive "ugh govt" is a result of decades of Reagan-ite propaganda. Govt is just people, and people are flawed and have competing incentives. I've worked in massive companies that have incredibly dumb inefficiencies.

> Reflexive "ugh govt" is a result of decades of Reagan-ite propaganda I (and many others) have worked for, contracted for, interacted with, and/or closely observed government for decades. The only “reflexive” thing here is your argument that people who disagree with the you are the victims of propaganda. You can certainly quibble with the details on how to deliver government efficiency (and I highly encourage people…

There's no denying that there's bloat, but going in with a chainsaw is not a conducive or efficient way to reduce bloat in an organization.

If you want to use the "private sector lense" (which I do not think is valid for a govenenent bureaucracy), there's a reason why when I've participated in M&A events, we would spend a year doing due diligence and understanding the organizational and financial structure before initiating an event.

By haphazardly doing these kinds of initiatives without even understanding regulations and laws means any potential savings will be burnt in litigation and cleaning up messes.

Re: Mark Cuban offers to fund former 18F employees

#130

Post by cmrdporcupine »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #119
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reagan or not, what you can see clearly in the comments here and many other places is that what would be considered fairly extreme libertarian talking points have become common parlance these days. Taxation as "theft", the necessity of the threat of termination and other economic deprivation in order to coerce people to doing good work, the assumption that profit inevitably produces more efficiency, and that efficien…

> Civic duty I remember when this was considered essential to being an American Citizen. We had classes on this in K-12. Sometime in the last decade or so, it's become synonymous with "communist." Which is pretty rich, considering what's going on, these days. Both Abe Lincoln and Joe McCarthy are doing 3200 RPM, right now. That's pretty crazy.

It's funny to me to see this kind of thing labelled as "communist" considering that classical Marxist theory itself actually has a very cynical (and determinist) view of the state and does not in fact see the state as performing this "civic" role at all. Old school dogmatic Marxists see the state as nothing more than the coordinating arm of capitalism, or a "relief valve" for it, and Lenin spoke openly about its complete destruction in State And Revolution. It's as equally cynical about government as the libertarian position is.

So, no, it's not "communist" to advocate a functioning civil sector.

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