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Nearly half of Steam's users are still using Windows 10

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Re: Nearly half of Steam's users are still using Windows 10

#121

Post by kioshix »

jonathanlydall wrote: post #58
rideontime wrote: post #12

I've been using Windows 11 without much complaint since its release, but off the top of my head, I can't name a single "feature" that would motivate me to upgrade if I were on Windows 10, besides "continued support."

When unplugging and plugging back in external monitors it moves windows back to the same monitors they were on before unplugging them. This is probably the most significant QoL feature. The control centre generally feels better than Windows 10, except for switching sound outputs or getting to the volume mixer, which require too many clicks. The settings app is a little more cohesive and has had some more control pane…

> When unplugging and plugging back in external monitors it moves windows back to the same monitors they were on before unplugging them. This is probably the most significant QoL feature.

Sometimes. Sometimes it does. It's all very random. My work laptop drives me nuts, when plugging back into the dock my windows return to where they were about 3/4 of the times. A quarter of the times they just all bunch up on the main monitor.

Re: Nearly half of Steam's users are still using Windows 10

#122

Post by snovymgodym »

freeAgent wrote: post #39
jl6 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhere in the unmentionable basements of industry, there are virtualized air-gapped XP boxes running mission-critical VBA.

At least as recently as 2014, I was aware of some random Windows 3.1 (yes) machines running in a corporate data center owned by a very recognizable Fortune 500 company. At the time, they were upgrading all their Windows PCs from XP to 7 and this 3.1 box showed up. I confirmed that it was, in fact, real.

Probably more common than you think.

https://www.tomshardware.com/software/windows/ms-dos-and-win...

Re: Nearly half of Steam's users are still using Windows 10

#123

Post by pjmlp »

tombert wrote: post #113
pjmlp wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far, they are targeting Windows and let Valve do the needful, instead of actually targeting SteamOS.

Are you saying that Microsoft might make some change to their API that would be difficult or impossible for Proton to replicate? Otherwise I don't see the issue with targeting Windows and letting Proton handle the compatibility.

I am saying Proton represents Valve's failure to make SteamOS attractive to game developers, many of which are already targeting existing Linux APIs via Android NDK.

Also note that PlayStation makes use of FreeBSD, yet another UNIX based system, even though they use their own proprietary 3D API.

What Microsoft might do, there are legal and technical options they can take, remains to be seen what.

Re: Nearly half of Steam's users are still using Windows 10

#124

Post by pjmlp »

mcv wrote: post #110
Zhyl wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of times I've seen people waiting for SteamOS makes me kind of excited that there's so much demand for an alternative to Windows, nervous that a SteamOS general release isn't going to live up to expectations and frustration that that "demand" isn't moving to other distros of its own accord or otherwise being captured by someone savvy. I think overall it means that "people", even if they have a more positiv…

Seriously, the moment there's a linux distro that really "just works", even with games on NVidia cards, I think Windows will lose a very large chunk of market share. So many people are sick of it, but most people still fear that stuff won't work right on Linux. Anyway, Valve is probably the most likely party to pull that off.

First they have to convince studios to target Linux instead of translating Windows APIs.

Re: Nearly half of Steam's users are still using Windows 10

#125

Post by tdpvb »

pavon wrote: post #40
rideontime wrote: post #12

I've been using Windows 11 without much complaint since its release, but off the top of my head, I can't name a single "feature" that would motivate me to upgrade if I were on Windows 10, besides "continued support."

I'm looking forward to the better window placement snaps. I plan on buying an ultra-widescreen monitor the day that work upgrades us to Windows 11. Manually positioning windows for a monitor that size is frustrating in Windows 10, you pretty much have to disable all the snaps because they work against you snapping windows into undesired sizes if you come close to the edge of the screen. I hate all the advertising and…

But auto-stretching windows to the screen's height has somehow turned into a frustrating game of mousing over a 0.001 pixel sweet spot at the top of the window. Maybe there's a hotkey for it though.

Re: Nearly half of Steam's users are still using Windows 10

#126

Post by tombert »

pjmlp wrote: post #123
tombert wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Microsoft might make some change to their API that would be difficult or impossible for Proton to replicate? Otherwise I don't see the issue with targeting Windows and letting Proton handle the compatibility.

I am saying Proton represents Valve's failure to make SteamOS attractive to game developers, many of which are already targeting existing Linux APIs via Android NDK. Also note that PlayStation makes use of FreeBSD, yet another UNIX based system, even though they use their own proprietary 3D API. What Microsoft might do, there are legal and technical options they can take, remains to be seen what.

> I am saying Proton represents Valve's failure to make SteamOS attractive to game developers

Sure, but I also think it was a matter of getting a huge library of games available on the Steam Deck immediately. Instead of waiting for every GameCo to port their game over to SteamOS, which may or may not happen no matter what (the console world is full of entropy from what I can tell), they can get like 90% of every single game on Steam available on the Steam Deck right away. I don't know exact numbers, but the Steam Deck might have the largest technically-compatible library of games out of any portable console at this point, although a lot probably aren't well optimized for it.

But of course, this leads to Proton also being a crutch; if you know that Proton is going to do a decent enough job running your game on Linux, there becomes little incentive to spend extra time and money getting a native Linux port on there.

It's tough to say. IANAL, but I feel like if Microsoft were going to do anything about the API emulation scene, they probably would have done something about Wine in the last thirty years. I think they're way more likely to do something funky with DirectX that is difficult or impossible to properly translate into a Vulkan shader, thus breaking compatibility with newer games.

Re: Nearly half of Steam's users are still using Windows 10

#127

Post by tombert »

ThatPlayer wrote: post #103
tombert wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fair, I guess I thought you meant suing out of existence. It's tough to say. Annoying Linux people like me tend to have horse-blinders on towards the rest of the world (hence the constant meme of the "Year of the Linux Desktop"), so it's tough for me to speculate with any kind of objectivity. That said, Steam Decks seem to be selling pretty well, and people don't seem to mind the SteamOS part of it. I think th…

> Steam Decks seem to be selling pretty well, and people don't seem to mind the SteamOS part of it. I think part of that is because of its form factor already limiting the device. Like how Android and iOS are fine on a phone or tablet, but I doubt most people would want it on a desktop computer. Not talking about the Linux part, but the real test with the Deck is whether or not it'll stay a target platform with its l…

I think the Deck might occupy a similar spot as the Nintendo Switch, in that it's not the most powerful console out there, but it's portable and nice, and it's a good enough target.

I think especially for indie games, which are typically less demanding than the big new AAA shoot-at-stuff games, the Steam Deck might be an "unofficial standard" for quite awhile.

Though I don't work in the games industry, so I'm talking out of my ass. Again, I'm an annoying Linux person so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Re: Nearly half of Steam's users are still using Windows 10

#128

Post by wappieslurkz »

JamesSwift wrote: post #61
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #48

How’s the experience of emulating windows for gaming on macOS today? Like on a MacBook pro with their proprietary chip?

Can you not dualboot ARM windows? I thought that was a thing

Unfortunately booting into Windows is not possible on Apple Silicon Macs yet. But there are many other options to run Windows or Windows software - including AAA games.

Re: Nearly half of Steam's users are still using Windows 10

#129

Post by wappieslurkz »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #48

How’s the experience of emulating windows for gaming on macOS today? Like on a MacBook pro with their proprietary chip?

I use Parallels, VMware, UTM and Wine-based solutions for a bunch of applications and games. If you don't mind a bit of tinkering here and there the results can be pretty good.
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