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Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

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Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#121
post #77

What’s wild is that this is a company clearly capable of designing highly complex things with numerous tradeoffs, challenges and unknowns. And then the fuckin cable is the issue. Repeatedly.

Both of my previous cars had door recalls. Ford Focus Mk3 and Prius Prime 2024. Yup. The door had weird failure cases that needed a recall. -------- Connectors and cables is damn near Masters level in knowledge and application. Its a rarely studied and often ignored piece of engineering. The more you learn about them, the crazier it gets. That being said, this news that the 4090 and 5090 are using but one shunt resis…

Yeah, but we also have reliable mature connectors for decades, and they try to make new connectors and it’s not rocket science to transfer that kind of load.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#122
post #93

Derbauer and Buildzoid on YouTube made nice informative videos on subject, and no it is not "simply a user error". So glad I went with 7900 XTX - should be all set for a couple of years.

It's too bad AMD will stop even aiming for that market. But also, I bought a Sapphire 7900 XTX knowing it'd be in my machine for at least half a decade.

People are acting like this is some long-term position. There's no evidence of that. AMD didn't give up on the high end permanently after the RX 480 / 580 generation.

What AMD does need right now is:

* Don't cannibalize advanced packaging (which big RDNA4 required) from high-margin and high-growth AI chips

* Focus on software features like upscaling tech (which is a big multiplier and allows midrange GPUs to punch far above their weight) and compute drivers (which they badly need to improve to have a real shot at taking AI chip marketshare)

* Focus on a few SKUs and execute as well as possible to build mindshare and a reputation for quality

"Big" consumer GPUs are increasingly pointless. The better upscaling gets, the less raw power you need, and 4K gaming is already passable (1440p gaming very good) on the current gen with no obvious market for going beyond that. Both Intel and Nvidia are independently suffering from this masturbatory obsession with "moar power" causing downstream issues. I'm glad AMD didn't go down that road personally.

If "midrange" RDNA4 is around the same strength as "high-end" RDNA3, but $300 cheaper and with much better ray tracing and an upscaling solution at least on par with DLSS 3, then that's a solid card that should sell well. Especially given how dumb the RTX 5080 looks from a value perspective.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has 240 volt plugs. They are only used for high power appliances such as AC or ovens. If you want, you could add a plug for your high powered space heater AKA gaming PC.

I’m aware we have 240V outlets. They are just not used in a place where you would put a PC. Until there is a shift in need (I.e., every normal user would need more than a 120V plug could handle), you won’t ever see 240V outlets in offices. I suspect it will never happen. In server areas and extremely specialized stuff? Yea, sure. But we’re talking desktop PCs here.

I envy my European friends' 240v electric kettles

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#124

People are letting their hatred of Nvidia blind them to what happened here, a customer upgraded from a 4090FE to 5090FE, they were using a 3rd party ASUS 12VHPWR cable and didn't realize the 5090FE actually uses 12V-2x6 not 12VHPWR, while the port is the same the pins are different lengths. End of the day PC power cabling is such a shambles with things that look standard but are not so you should only ever really use…

The two standards are compatible, the port end hasn't changed, just the connector. The shorter sense pins are just designed to help detect an improperly connected cable, so that the sense pins only connect when the power pins are definitely connected.

Buildzoid and others have covered the design issues of the 12VHPWR cable and especially it's horrific implementation on the 5090FE well enough[1] that I don't think it's worth going into too much detail here. For some god forsaken reason, they decided to just dump all of the voltage lines in parallel and then run a single shunt resistor to it, so if a conductor fails and the load becomes improperly distributed, there's no way for the card or the user to know until it catches fire. It's hard to come up with a reasonable justification for this.

But just so we're clear, there are 2 reports of catastrophic failures with the 5090 already, which should be even more alarming considering how few 5090 actually exist right now. The other failure didn't involve third-party cables.

Of course, if used improperly, you can burn through basically any cable, and any cable can fail... but when the failure rate of a specific cable is so high above the rest, it raises many questions. If a specific model of aircraft seems to have an oddly bad problem with pilot error, you can't just shrug that off. In my opinion, consumer computer equipment is the same. It shouldn't light on fire unless you've done something horribly wrong. And even if you do something horribly wrong, the hardware should at least be designed in a way that gives it a chance at failing gracefully first. The connectors that 12VHPWR replaced were specced with good safety margins and previous NVIDIA cards were designed to ensure current was balanced across voltage lines.

It is unclear why NVIDIA didn't see the issue with the 12VHPWR last generation and put some serious effort into fixing the problem. If they continue recklessly like this, there is a non-zero chance that the 12VHPWR connector is only retired after it finally causes loss of life.

[1]: https://youtu.be/kb5YzMoVQyw

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#125
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I expect my next card with be AMD. I'm happy with my 3080 for now, but the cards have nearly double in price in two generations and I'm not going to support that. I can't abide the prices nor the insane power draw. I'm OK with not having DLSS.

It'll probably be fine for years, longer if you can stand looking at AI generated, upscaled frames. Liftup in GPU power is so expensive, we might as well be back to the reign of the 1080. The only thing that'll move the needle will be a new console generation.

My 1080 has been running with the same configuration for years. The only thing I consider a downside is the lack of power for exploring AI locally, and AI isn't worth buying a $1234 video card for myself.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#126
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you would then need to bring it down to the low voltages required by the chips and that would greatly increased cost, volume, weight, electrical noise and heat of the device.

Nah, modern GPUs are already absolutely packed with buck converters, to convert 12v down to 2v or so. Look at the PCB of a 4090 GPU; you can find plenty of images of people removing the heatsink to fit water blocks. They literally have 24 separate transistors and inductors, all with thermal pads so they can be cooled by the heatsink. The industry could change to 48v if they wanted to - although with ATX3.0 and the 16…

Of course there is, same on motherboards and to a smaller extent hard drives.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#127

Derbauer and Buildzoid on YouTube made nice informative videos on subject, and no it is not "simply a user error". So glad I went with 7900 XTX - should be all set for a couple of years.

I had two AMD 7900 XTX and they both overheated like mad. Instant 110°C and throttle. Opted for a refund instead of a third GPU.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#128

Derbauer and Buildzoid on YouTube made nice informative videos on subject, and no it is not "simply a user error". So glad I went with 7900 XTX - should be all set for a couple of years.

Summary of the Buildzoid video courtesy of redditors in r/hardware: > TL;DW: The 3090 had 3 shunt resistors set up in a way which distributed the power load evenly among the 6 power-bearing conductors. That's why there were no reports of melted 3090s. The 4090/5090 modified the engineering for whatever reason, perhaps to save on manufacturing costs, and the shunt resistors no longer distribute the power load. Therefo…

Honestly with 50A of current we should be using connectors that screw into place firmly and have a single wipe or a single solid conductor pin style. Multi-pin connectors will always inherently have issues with imbalance of power delivery. With extremely slim engineering margins this is basically asking for disaster. I stand by what I've said elsewhere: If I was an insurance company I'd issue a notice that fires caused by this connector will not be covered by any issued policy as it does not satisfy reasonable engineering margins.

edit: replaced power with current... we're talking amps not watts

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m aware we have 240V outlets. They are just not used in a place where you would put a PC. Until there is a shift in need (I.e., every normal user would need more than a 120V plug could handle), you won’t ever see 240V outlets in offices. I suspect it will never happen. In server areas and extremely specialized stuff? Yea, sure. But we’re talking desktop PCs here.

I envy my European friends' 240v electric kettles

And to drive that point home, we get induction stoves that run on three-phase 400V.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA has 240 volt plugs. They are only used for high power appliances such as AC or ovens. If you want, you could add a plug for your high powered space heater AKA gaming PC.

I’m aware we have 240V outlets. They are just not used in a place where you would put a PC. Until there is a shift in need (I.e., every normal user would need more than a 120V plug could handle), you won’t ever see 240V outlets in offices. I suspect it will never happen. In server areas and extremely specialized stuff? Yea, sure. But we’re talking desktop PCs here.

There's also 20 amp circuits which are common.

Many houses run circuits that are rated for 20 amps even if they don't have the right outlet for it so this is an inexpensive upgrade for most.

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