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A better build system for OCaml

blog.janestreet.com

121–130 of 219 posts

Re: A better build system for OCaml

#121
post #6

I spent several years in Haskell land a while back, my first functional experience after Lisp. Ocaml never clicked for me, I have a rare form of semicolon allergy and Haskell just looked a lot nicer to me. But then I recently tried Reason and enjoyed it A LOT, so everything Ocaml is suddenly interesting.

It's funny because the thing that always turned me off from Haskell was that it feels like a stream of whitespace and identifies without good visual cues as to structure. I'm sure once you get the zen of it, it's fine. Like Lisp, I guess, you learn to think in its structure. But looking at a screenful of Haskell to me is intimidating. Of the bunch I found SML/NJ to be the most readable.

The whitespace is the visual cue.

But in any case, you can use curly braces and semicolons in Haskell just fine. You can also write your Haskell like Lisp, and add lots of parens everywhere, and use all operators in prefix-form.

Re: A better build system for OCaml

#123
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but could you live with the fact that you're providing absolutely no value to the world? It always makes me sad when the greatest minds get gobbled up by these companies because they're creaming off the top of an enormously complex system they created.

People outside the industry just use that as cope because they making way less money. "How do you live with yourself making high 6 fig / 7 figs a yr?" Quite easily in fact.

Having worked in both, there is a huge number of really smart people who turn down offers to work in quant shops. And people really underestimate how much tech will pay top researchers/overestimate how much the average quant makes.

Re: A better build system for OCaml

#124
post #7

They did an episode of Signals and Threads (Jane Street's technical podcast) about their build systems back in 2020¥. Highly recommended, as are the other episodes, especially The Future of Programming with Richard Eisenberg° and What is an Operating System? with Anil Madhavapeddy§. ¥ https://signalsandthreads.com/build-systems/ ° https://signalsandthreads.com/future-of-programming/ § https://signalsandthreads.com/wh…

Very interesting footnote system. Is it just for fun and aesthetic or have a deeper origin or purpose?

For fun and profit.

Re: A better build system for OCaml

#125
post #116
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mother capitalism deems that our brightest young minds best serve humanity in two tasks. Keeping the public passively scrolling, and moving money at speed to make wealthy people more wealthy.

Actually, not. These market makers are often prop shops. That means they use their own fund (prop = proprietary) to do the trading. They can do that because they don't need much capital to run. So the story here is that over the last twenty years they stole the lunch from the traditional market makers like eg banks. Of course, they got rich in the process. But they started from relatively modest means, compared to th…

None of that is contrary to "moving money at speed to make wealthy people more wealthy".

Re: A better build system for OCaml

#126
post #94
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mother capitalism deems that our brightest young minds best serve humanity in two tasks. Keeping the public passively scrolling, and moving money at speed to make wealthy people more wealthy.

Hey, some of them are working tirelessly to ruin sports.

Sports is doing that to itself, but I assume you mean betting, which really sucks the fun out of a room.

Re: A better build system for OCaml

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HM-typed functional programming Mercury also uses Haskell for their backend https://mercury.com/

Too bad they didn't use their namesake: https://mercurylang.org/ Would honestly be a lot more interesting than Haskell.

Anyone coding Mercury out there?

Re: A better build system for OCaml

#128
post #125
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, not. These market makers are often prop shops. That means they use their own fund (prop = proprietary) to do the trading. They can do that because they don't need much capital to run. So the story here is that over the last twenty years they stole the lunch from the traditional market makers like eg banks. Of course, they got rich in the process. But they started from relatively modest means, compared to th…

None of that is contrary to "moving money at speed to make wealthy people more wealthy".

You make new people wealthy.

Re: A better build system for OCaml

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried meson? I used it once many years ago, and it seemed slightly better.

Meson's approach to simplicity is if you need anything nontrivial, you simply add it to Meson itself. In CMake, you can script it in more cases.

Depends on what you need; you can easily call out to external Python scripts to solve many problems, which will work everywhere because Python is needed to run meson itself.

Re: A better build system for OCaml

#130
post #10

I respectfully have to disagree. As Fedora packager for OCaml packages, dune's configuration is yet another one-off, with a weird Lisp syntax, hard to understand, difficult to patch. I'd far rather people stuck to using more familiar Linux build systems. As an upstream OCaml developer, the whole thing falls down the minute you need to integrate other programming languages into your build (or OCaml code into a code ba…

> As Fedora packager

The issue is there. Not you or your fellow packagers of course, but in the idea that every linux distribution needs it's own packaging system, and each version of a distribution it's own packages.

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