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A Defense of libertarianism (and response to Zed, etc.)

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Re: A Defense of libertarianism (and response to Zed, etc.)

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the meat of your comment is in the story about how Citibank's failure makes it harder for you to find a job. First, note that if it weren't for regulators deciding on the amount of reserve capital Citibank was required to hold, the market would probably have demanded that it hold much more. For a long time iBanks have been benefiting from the Fed's power to bail them out. Unlike banks, whose asymmetric liquid…

I have serious trouble believing that "the market" would have led to Citi keeping larger amounts of reserve capital around. In fact, I'm pretty sure that it was the banks pressuring the government to let them hold less in reserve. I am registered Libertarian, as I believe in marketizing problems whenever possible; however, the markets must be set up correctly to be truly free, and only the government can do that.

True, but have you ever been driving on an icy road and seen people going the speed limit, 55 miles per hour?

The psychology people seem to have is to believe that if the government regulates it, then anything that falls under the regulation requires no independent thought.

On the icy road, the safe speed maximum is probably about 30 mph, but many accidents are caused by people going the posted limit, as people seem to trust the wise planner above their own ability to judge.

Similarly, people assume that a firm that is regulated by the SEC and backed buy the FDIC is going to be a safe place to put money, which is not always true.

I agree with your last statement, but note that 1) the SEC required insufficient reserves, and 2) because the government set the reserve limits, there is the implication that it ought to bail out the firms that were "just following the rules".

Hence the view of firms being "too big to fail" comes from the idea that regulation is perfect and if only it's followed then everything will be fine.

In a better, more libertarian world, banking crises would result in some failures, and once-burned investors would look carefully at what reserves actually mean, look sceptically at rating-weighted reserve requirements, and expect that if things go wrong there will not be a bailout.

This would help put money into firms that actually know how to act in a trustworthy, sound way, not just the firms that are able to successfully lobby the SEC, the way Madoff's did.

Re: A Defense of libertarianism (and response to Zed, etc.)

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the meat of your comment is in the story about how Citibank's failure makes it harder for you to find a job. First, note that if it weren't for regulators deciding on the amount of reserve capital Citibank was required to hold, the market would probably have demanded that it hold much more. For a long time iBanks have been benefiting from the Fed's power to bail them out. Unlike banks, whose asymmetric liquid…

Regulation sets a minimum reserve, not a maximum one.

Speed limit signs set a minimum and a maximum speed, yet I always see drivers careening along on icy roads at the posted maximum. They must have more faith in planners than I do, as I try to determine how icy the road is and go at a safe speed.

I don't think financial regulations are any different, but unfortunately most people take the fact that a firm is regulated to mean that it's totally safe. Similarly, many foods that will result in an early death are perfectly legal and consistent with the USDA food pyramid.

Re: A Defense of libertarianism (and response to Zed, etc.)

#123
If you are interested in Libertarianism but you instinctively are suspicious of capitalism or even currency, perhaps you would be interested in Anarchism. You can read about many interesting aspects of Anarchism with regards to its relationship to other ideas such as Capitalism, Marxism, State Socialism, and the current system we have in America. http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html If you think the abolition of money and markets is the abolition of economies, you are wrong and I invite you to read this very short intro to Anarcho-Communism, a post-capitalism way to live and organize. http://struggle.ws/wsm/rbr/rbr10/communism.html

Re: A Defense of libertarianism (and response to Zed, etc.)

#124

As an engineer and an ex-libertarian that managed to (thankfully) outgrow it, I have to say that what you describe isn't actually libertarianism as practised and understood by libertarians at large, but your own personal interpretation of it. Is is actually somewhat close to my current views and I would never call myself a libertarian, nor would libertarians call me one of them. You seem to believe in a weak central…

You seem to believe in a weak central government and strong state governments that try new approaches and get shit done. This is nice, except most libertarians believe in weak governments in all levels of government. No, not a government that works as well, not an efficient government, but a minimal government. To have a minimum, you have to have a set of constraints. There's no reason those constraints could not lea…

>minimal is a term you can drive a truck through

That's why many Libertarians believe in a _Constitutional_ government. I.e. there is absolutely a standard for what size the US federal government should be (and what purposes it should serve). It's the US Constitution.

Re: A Defense of libertarianism (and response to Zed, etc.)

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have serious trouble believing that "the market" would have led to Citi keeping larger amounts of reserve capital around. In fact, I'm pretty sure that it was the banks pressuring the government to let them hold less in reserve. I am registered Libertarian, as I believe in marketizing problems whenever possible; however, the markets must be set up correctly to be truly free, and only the government can do that.

True, but have you ever been driving on an icy road and seen people going the speed limit, 55 miles per hour? The psychology people seem to have is to believe that if the government regulates it, then anything that falls under the regulation requires no independent thought. On the icy road, the safe speed maximum is probably about 30 mph, but many accidents are caused by people going the posted limit, as people seem…

The problem that I have with your examples is that it requires all actors, including consumers, to have nearly perfect information access, and to be able to act on that.

In the car example, I think we have a difference of philosophy. I think that regardless of the posted speed limit, some people will not exercise the proper judgement because they have evaluated the conditions differently.

In the example of reserve funds, imagine a world with similar information asymmetry to today. Banks are semi-transparent, and deposits are backed to some extent by the FDIC. However, the SEC takes less of an active regulatory role, the result of which is that some unscrupulous banks have started offering insanely high interest rates based on dangerous fractional reserves. People will likely flock to those banks, especially given that the FDIC is backing their investments... and then the whole thing collapses.

One solution is to get rid of the moral hazard inherent in the FDIC, and make it clear that the only way to hold your money safely is in cash, in your home. But one of the signs of civilization is increased specialization of labor; I should not have to do the job of banker and regulator all rolled into one, just to have a place to keep my money. Worse, it's not even clear that this is possible, because of inherent information asymmetry.

We can argue about whether an adequate ad-hoc bank insurance solution would arise, however, I'm not sure that such an invention would increase efficiency in the market.

As for regulation, there doesn't really seem to be any real alternative, unless the direct consequences for the operators of failed financial institutions became much more dire. And criminalizing poor business decisions doesn't seem very Libertarian at all.

Re: A Defense of libertarianism (and response to Zed, etc.)

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulation sets a minimum reserve, not a maximum one.

Speed limit signs set a minimum and a maximum speed, yet I always see drivers careening along on icy roads at the posted maximum. They must have more faith in planners than I do, as I try to determine how icy the road is and go at a safe speed. I don't think financial regulations are any different, but unfortunately most people take the fact that a firm is regulated to mean that it's totally safe. Similarly, many foo…

To be clear: you are suggesting that banks have kept low reserves because they took their government requirements as a sign of what was prudent to lend. Rather than asking their many teams of risk analysts, they made lending decisions based on an arbitrary number set by the government, despite the fact that this level has not been raised or lowered in decades, is uniform across all banks, takes no heed of the current financial situation and has never prevented a crash in the past.

If this were true (and it certainly is not!) then the market really would be just as incompetent as its critics say it is.

Re: A Defense of libertarianism (and response to Zed, etc.)

#127
post #5

So, I lean libertarian on many things. However, the problem I see with libertarianism is that it posits that people aren't that effected by those around them. Gay sex is fine because it's a personal decision - yeah, I totally agree. Taking on billions in risky loans that cause economic collapse is fine because it's a personal decision - I really disagree. I hate the idea of paternalism and as someone involved in the…

>The problem really is that freedom doesn't exist. There's definitely more freedom and less freedom, but freedom doesn't exist. Why? Because your actions affect me. The fact that some geniuses at Citibank and others screwed up makes it harder for me to switch jobs, means raises are going to be nil this year, etc. The freedom they had took away freedom I had. And so it becomes a balancing act and often I get lectures about freedom as if it isn't such a balancing act.

To be clear, the items you state here aren't _rights_. Rather, they're privileges that aren't guaranteed. If you work and do a great job, you're not entitled to a big house in the suburbs, but you're increasing the odds of being able to afford it.

The Constitution guarantees rights to life, liberty, and property, as well as several other rights in the Bill of Rights and other amendments. But nowhere there will you find a right to have a job or right to make x% interest in the stock market (or right to be bailed out if you get in over your head in the real estate market).

As a nation we have a real problem of mistaking opportunities for rights, and feeling entitled to things that we want.

Re: A Defense of libertarianism (and response to Zed, etc.)

#128
I think it is important to look at what I see as the two main sides of 'libertarianism'.

-The Moral Argument-

Libertarianism is about rights & opposing coercion. Other people & by extension governments should stay out of other people's business. Don't tell me where to work or what to do. Don't tell me to wear a seatbelt. Mostly that works fine

-The Economic Argument-

There is the second argument that (when it being criticised) gets called 'idealistic' or 'religious.' This is the idea that by not intervening in peoples' lives & by extension in companies, everything will work out good. Markets will function better. Economic output will be higher. Public good would be increased. This relies on economic theories, theoretically anyway. So far, most countries are really a balance here.

These are seperate & the arguments for them are seperate. On the first, I am pretty clear where I stand: I agree mostly with the libertarian position on personal rights. I am against drug/alcohol/seatbelt/smoking/exercise bans, prohibitions or requirements. I am willing to relax that if the negative public effects are substantial & prohibition side effects are less substantial. So if we legalised drugs & found we ended up with a severe amphetamine problem, I would consider reinstating the prohibition.

My biggest problem is the welfare approach. For a similar reason to the amphetamine prohibition above, I think that welfare/health is essential & should be provided by the state. If it is provided by non-state bodies to a sufficient level, the state doesn't need to do it. I would even extend that to international welfare.

The economic arguments get very technical. It is also an area where theories are rarely good at being predictive. I see the connection between the moral & economic theories. But I am not as worried about the rights of a corporation as I am the rights of an individual.

Re: A Defense of libertarianism (and response to Zed, etc.)

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for this. I think that the field of game theory, and as the most simplistic example, the prisoner's dilemma, shows that libertarianism, as defined by the idea that individuals acting in their own self-interest will create the greatest common benefit, is flawed. Specifically, this will limit the benefit of each individual as well as the aggregate. Individuals acting in their own self-interests categorically…

To your example I would add the "Tragedy of the Commons": http://dieoff.org/page95.htm The tragedy of the commons demonstrates that with certain shared resources, when everyone freely pursues their rational self interest not only is utility not maximized, sometimes the result is catastrophic. Libertarian solutions to the tragedy of the commons usually involve attempted parcelization and privatization of existing comm…

Privatization of fishing grounds, in the form of fishing rights distributed by auction, is a widely used means of managing fisheries. It works well when property rights are actually enforced (e.g. a body of water controlled by only one nation).

Re: A Defense of libertarianism (and response to Zed, etc.)

#130
post #63
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it depends on other factors, but that's not the point. In this situation: * Firstly, who's to tell Liblanders that they risk invasion? It's not clear that Libertarianism supports the notion of foreign policy, diplomacy, espionage etc. * Secondly, all the food in the country is coming from Xia. Once demand grows Xia realises that Libland has recognised the threat and invades immediately.

There might be food insurance companies. They would have advertisements telling people of a probable military intervention by Xia and recommend people to buy food insurance in order to be safe. Regarding your second point: The realization that Xia might attack will probably not come suddenly but slowly. So people will gradually begin investing in food insurance. It's unlikely that Xia turns from friend to enemy in a…

The realization that Xia might attack will probably not come suddenly but slowly

Just like 9-11, Dec 7, 1941, the anschluss, mongol invasions...the Hitties and Philistines versus the Israelites, yeah, military ops are always telegraphed.

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